Photography underground
 

Are there any specific instructions for photographers on the
Underground? I was standing at the Baker Street station (Metropolitan
line platform) and tried to make photo of the local junction (at the
moment when train was passing it) - I was approached by two policemen
and told to stop photography and delete existing photos (they even
checked that the photos were deleted) as no photography allowed on the
Underground anymore due to the threat of the terrorism.

Is it true?

P.S. I was standing in the location permitted for the passengers and
photos without flash. Even more, I shot more then 10 stations during
the week, and this is the first incident of the kind (even though in
many locations I stood right next to station staff).

Photography underground
 

On Mar 9, 6:50 pm, "alex_t" wrote:
Are there any specific instructions for photographers on the
Underground? I was standing at the Baker Street station (Metropolitan
line platform) and tried to make photo of the local junction (at the
moment when train was passing it) - I was approached by two policemen
and told to stop photography and delete existing photos (they even
checked that the photos were deleted) as no photography allowed on the
Underground anymore due to the threat of the terrorism.

Is it true?

P.S. I was standing in the location permitted for the passengers and
photos without flash. Even more, I shot more then 10 stations during
the week, and this is the first incident of the kind (even though in
many locations I stood right next to station staff).

What they have told you is absolute nonsense!
The only restrictions are that a tripod should not be used, you dont
get too close to the platform edge and NEVER EVER EVER use the flash
or those red lights they now have. They can momentarily "blind" the
driver.
You should have then asked the station supervisor if they minded.
Did you get the Officers' details?

Next time, if your around photographing for a project or something,
see the Station Supervisor.

Photography underground
 

On 9 Mar 2007 11:11:01 -0800, chunky munky wrote:

Next time, if your around photographing for a project or something,
see the Station Supervisor.

According to

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/film...lming-faqs.asp

you have to apply in writing and pay for the privilege.

And the FAQ specifically says ANYBODY wanting to take pictures must seek
prior permission.

--
jhk

Photography underground
 

"Jarle H Knudsen" wrote in message
...
On 9 Mar 2007 11:11:01 -0800, chunky munky wrote:

Next time, if your around photographing for a project or something,
see the Station Supervisor.

According to

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/film...lming-faqs.asp

you have to apply in writing and pay for the privilege.

And the FAQ specifically says ANYBODY wanting to take pictures must seek
prior permission.

Every time this subject has come up before it has been found that that link
refers to commercial filming only. Happy snaps are allowed except flash and
tripods are not permitted.

Paul

Photography underground
 

In message , Paul Scott
writes

"Jarle H Knudsen" wrote in message
. ..
On 9 Mar 2007 11:11:01 -0800, chunky munky wrote:

Next time, if your around photographing for a project or something,
see the Station Supervisor.

According to

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/film...lming-faqs.asp

you have to apply in writing and pay for the privilege.

And the FAQ specifically says ANYBODY wanting to take pictures must seek
prior permission.

Every time this subject has come up before it has been found that that link
refers to commercial filming only. Happy snaps are allowed except flash and
tripods are not permitted.

Yes, I would have thought the same thing I(and have certainly taken
photographs in the past without any incident).

However, the FAQ does seem to impose a blanket ban (or rather charging
regime). Anyone know anything different that they can actually point
to in written form?
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Photography underground
 

In message , Paul Scott
writes
Every time this subject has come up before it has been found that that link
refers to commercial filming only. Happy snaps are allowed except flash and
tripods are not permitted.

This gets even more interesting. When I delved deeper into

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/filming



I found the quote:

"It's not all underground either. Apart from the Circle line, all other
lines thread their way through the City and go above ground into the
countryside."

Where, pray, are the Victoria Line and Waterloo & City "go above ground
into the countryside"?!
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Photography underground
 

The only restrictions are that a tripod should not be used, you dont
get too close to the platform edge and NEVER EVER EVER use the flash
or those red lights they now have. They can momentarily "blind" the
driver.

I was about two meters away from the platform (and there was a barrier
at the edge of the platform), the flash was disabled and no red lights
at all (I specifically check for this before filming), and of course
no tripod.


You should have then asked the station supervisor if they minded.

I was making photos for myself (well, I will publish most of them on
my homepage and some at Wikipedia) - I do not want to inconvenience LU
staff with my hobby...


Did you get the Officers' details?

Nope, I was quite scared actually. Not to mention that this was near
large group of passengers waiting for the train - I got some funny
looks later in the train.


Next time, if your around photographing for a project or something,
see the Station Supervisor.

:-/

Photography underground
 

"Ian Jelf" wrote in message
...


Every time this subject has come up before it has been found that that
link
refers to commercial filming only. Happy snaps are allowed except flash
and
tripods are not permitted.

Yes, I would have thought the same thing I(and have certainly taken
photographs in the past without any incident).

However, the FAQ does seem to impose a blanket ban (or rather charging
regime). Anyone know anything different that they can actually point to
in written form?

If you go into 'Ask Tube' and search on the word 'photography', it reads as
follows:

Q. Do I need permission to film or take photographs on the tube?

A. You may take personal photographs on the Tube, but you MUST NOT use
flash.

For information on filming or taking professional photographs on the tube,
please [click here]

(the link takes you to the commercial filming section linked earlier) I
think its about time somone much more interested in photography than me
tried to get them to change the website.

Paul

Photography underground
 

On 9 Mar 2007 10:50:37 -0800, "alex_t"
wrote:

Are there any specific instructions for photographers on the
Underground? I was standing at the Baker Street station (Metropolitan
line platform) and tried to make photo of the local junction (at the
moment when train was passing it) - I was approached by two policemen
and told to stop photography and delete existing photos (they even
checked that the photos were deleted) as no photography allowed on the
Underground anymore due to the threat of the terrorism.

Is it true?

No it is not true. There would be posters and announcements to advise
people if it was. The only posters and announcements relate to not using
flash photography due to the blinding effect it can have on drivers.

I sometimes cover for my boss at security meetings and a ban on
photography has never been mentioned at all.

The police also have no right whatsoever to demand that you delete
photographs from your camera. I despair of this sort of thing. Were they
"real" police or "plastic" community support officers? I've had a run
in with the latter at Victoria Bus Station and ended up advising them
that they call Tim O'Toole to verify that I was a senior manager at LU.
At that point they gave up hassling me.

The main issue is to check with the station supervisor so they know you
are there and can provide any requisite local knowledge.

I recently took some photos on the Tyne and Wear Metro and I had to sign
an indemnity waiver and advise where I would be on the system. Now I
personally think that is completely over the top but nonetheless I
complied with the "rules" even though they were NOT on the Nexus
website. It took about three e-mails in the space of a few hours and
everything was sorted. I had no problems on the day and no one batted an
eyelid or said anything.

Here is the official legal position

Click on the like to the pdf file via UK Photographers Rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor... ited_Kingdom

P.S. I was standing in the location permitted for the passengers and
photos without flash. Even more, I shot more then 10 stations during
the week, and this is the first incident of the kind (even though in
many locations I stood right next to station staff).

Baker St is a HQ building so I can perhaps understand a slightly more
"intense" view as to photography but even so. Security is important but
it is not there to create needless restrictions or paranoia or else the
terrorists have won IMO.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Photography underground
 

According to

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/film...lming-faqs.asp

you have to apply in writing and pay for the privilege.

When you have a look at the actual form - it is called "Commercial
filming & photography permit request" (note - *commercial*). I suppose
this is not for non-commercial/private type of photography (which is
my case)...

Photography underground
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On 9 Mar 2007 10:50:37 -0800, "alex_t"
wrote:

Are there any specific instructions for photographers on the
Underground? I was standing at the Baker Street station (Metropolitan
line platform) and tried to make photo of the local junction (at the
moment when train was passing it) - I was approached by two policemen
and told to stop photography and delete existing photos (they even
checked that the photos were deleted) as no photography allowed on the
Underground anymore due to the threat of the terrorism.

Is it true?

No it is not true. There would be posters and announcements to advise
people if it was. The only posters and announcements relate to not using
flash photography due to the blinding effect it can have on drivers.

I sometimes cover for my boss at security meetings and a ban on
photography has never been mentioned at all.

The police also have no right whatsoever to demand that you delete
photographs from your camera. I despair of this sort of thing. Were they
"real" police or "plastic" community support officers? I've had a run
in with the latter at Victoria Bus Station and ended up advising them
that they call Tim O'Toole to verify that I was a senior manager at LU.
At that point they gave up hassling me.

The main issue is to check with the station supervisor so they know you
are there and can provide any requisite local knowledge.

I recently took some photos on the Tyne and Wear Metro and I had to sign
an indemnity waiver and advise where I would be on the system. Now I
personally think that is completely over the top but nonetheless I
complied with the "rules" even though they were NOT on the Nexus
website. It took about three e-mails in the space of a few hours and
everything was sorted. I had no problems on the day and no one batted an
eyelid or said anything.

Here is the official legal position

Click on the like to the pdf file via UK Photographers Rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor... ited_Kingdom

P.S. I was standing in the location permitted for the passengers and
photos without flash. Even more, I shot more then 10 stations during
the week, and this is the first incident of the kind (even though in
many locations I stood right next to station staff).

Baker St is a HQ building so I can perhaps understand a slightly more
"intense" view as to photography but even so. Security is important but
it is not there to create needless restrictions or paranoia or else the
terrorists have won IMO.


Paul, I've just posted a quote from the 'ask tube' part of the website,
which differentiates between private and commercial photography, and I think
the problem is that its only the rules for commercial photography that
anyone normally finds. I should have thought the answer was a fairly
straightforward amendment to the page linked to from the 'arts' section.

Paul S

Photography underground
 

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 20:38:37 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On 9 Mar 2007 10:50:37 -0800, "alex_t"
wrote:

Are there any specific instructions for photographers on the
Underground? I was standing at the Baker Street station (Metropolitan
line platform) and tried to make photo of the local junction (at the
moment when train was passing it) - I was approached by two policemen
and told to stop photography and delete existing photos (they even
checked that the photos were deleted) as no photography allowed on the
Underground anymore due to the threat of the terrorism.

[snip]

Paul, I've just posted a quote from the 'ask tube' part of the website,
which differentiates between private and commercial photography, and I think
the problem is that its only the rules for commercial photography that
anyone normally finds. I should have thought the answer was a fairly
straightforward amendment to the page linked to from the 'arts' section.

Sure - all this makes the action of the "police" even more bizarre and
incorrect. If I was the OP I would make a complaint given that he was
doing nothing wrong *at all* and that the police were acting outside of
their authority. This sort of crap makes me very cross and it does
nothing to build proper and effective relationships between LU and
people who have a genuine interest in the system and its workings. We
should not be alienating people who are naturally inclined to be
supporters of the business.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Photography underground
 

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 20:06:46 +0000, Ian Jelf wrote:

I found the quote:

"It's not all underground either. Apart from the Circle line, all other
lines thread their way through the City and go above ground into the
countryside."

Where, pray, are the Victoria Line and Waterloo & City "go above ground
into the countryside"?!

The Vic (along with several others) doesn't go through the City,
either.

Photography underground
 

On Mar 9, 8:31 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On 9 Mar 2007 10:50:37 -0800, "alex_t"
wrote:

Are there any specific instructions for photographers on the
Underground? I was standing at the Baker Street station (Metropolitan
line platform) and tried to make photo of the local junction (at the
moment when train was passing it) - I was approached by two policemen
and told to stop photography and delete existing photos (they even
checked that the photos were deleted) as no photography allowed on the
Underground anymore due to the threat of the terrorism.

Is it true?

No it is not true. There would be posters and announcements to advise
people if it was. The only posters and announcements relate to not using
flash photography due to the blinding effect it can have on drivers.

I sometimes cover for my boss at security meetings and a ban on
photography has never been mentioned at all.

The police also have no right whatsoever to demand that you delete
photographs from your camera. I despair of this sort of thing. Were they
"real" police or "plastic" community support officers? I've had a run
in with the latter at Victoria Bus Station and ended up advising them
that they call Tim O'Toole to verify that I was a senior manager at LU.
At that point they gave up hassling me.

The main issue is to check with the station supervisor so they know you
are there and can provide any requisite local knowledge.

I recently took some photos on the Tyne and Wear Metro and I had to sign
an indemnity waiver and advise where I would be on the system. Now I
personally think that is completely over the top but nonetheless I
complied with the "rules" even though they were NOT on the Nexus
website. It took about three e-mails in the space of a few hours and
everything was sorted. I had no problems on the day and no one batted an
eyelid or said anything.

Here is the official legal position

Click on the like to the pdf file via UK Photographers Rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...ed_photographs...

P.S. I was standing in the location permitted for the passengers and
photos without flash. Even more, I shot more then 10 stations during
the week, and this is the first incident of the kind (even though in
many locations I stood right next to station staff).

Baker St is a HQ building so I can perhaps understand a slightly more
"intense" view as to photography but even so. Security is important but
it is not there to create needless restrictions or paranoia or else the
terrorists have won IMO.

--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!



At this same station the other day there was a woman dressed head to
toe in a black bin liner having her photo taken. They had signed in.
But as hey kept ignoring the requests to stop taking photos, they were
asked to leave!

I use the same entrance to the Divisional HeadQuarters as the BTP, but
have never been challenged by the despite wearing a hood!

All I can say is that if your taking photos and it is important to
you, just let the Supervisor know when you get there as it will reduce
any problems that might then arise, beit from station staff or the BTP
(Beers, Teas & Pies).

Happy Snapping!

Photography underground
 

On 9 Mar 2007 13:50:33 -0800, "chunky munky"
wrote:

the BTP
(Beers, Teas & Pies).

Well that's a new one on me!
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Photography underground
 

In ,
asdf typed:

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 20:06:46 +0000, Ian Jelf wrote:

I found the quote:

"It's not all underground either. Apart from the Circle line, all
other lines thread their way through the City and go above ground
into the countryside."

Where, pray, are the Victoria Line and Waterloo & City "go above
ground into the countryside"?!

The Vic (along with several others) doesn't go through the City,
either.


City of Westminster?


--
Bob

Photography underground
 

Paul Corfield wrote:

The police also have no right whatsoever to demand that you delete
photographs from your camera.

The police have the right to do what the hell they like. Welcome to New
Labour's Britain!

I recently took some photos on the Tyne and Wear Metro and I had to
sign an indemnity waiver and advise where I would be on the system.
Now I personally think that is completely over the top but
nonetheless I complied with the "rules" even though they were NOT on
the Nexus website. It took about three e-mails in the space of a few
hours and everything was sorted. I had no problems on the day and no
one batted an eyelid or said anything.

Any suicide bomber could do the same thing, so there is no point in them
demanding that people do that.

Security is important
but it is not there to create needless restrictions or paranoia or
else the terrorists have won IMO.

No, Bliar has won!

Photography underground
 

TFL link (one of the two should work):


http://tinyurl.com/2xu6oq




https://tube-tfl.custhelp.com/cgi-bi.../std_adp.php?p
_faqid=432&p_created=1107865574&p_sid=YHS1*9wi&p_a ccessibility=0&p_redirect=
&p_lva=432&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaW Rzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTU0
JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2 hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJj
aF9mbmwmcF9zY2ZfY190dWJlX2xpbmU9JnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2 VhcmNoX3RleHQ9dGFraW5nIHBo
b3RvcyBvbiB0aGUgdHViZQ**&p_li=&p_topview=1

Photography underground
 

"Paul Scott" schreef in bericht
...

If you go into 'Ask Tube' and search on the word 'photography', it reads
as
follows:

Q. Do I need permission to film or take photographs on the tube?

A. You may take personal photographs on the Tube, but you MUST NOT use
flash.

For information on filming or taking professional photographs on the tube,
please [click here]

(the link takes you to the commercial filming section linked earlier) I
think its about time somone much more interested in photography than me
tried to get them to change the website.

Paul


Still, if this very indirect way of informing is the level of clarity the HQ
offers, I am not surprised that Underground staff may be unsure and
overreact. I was recently asked by a station staff member for a written
permission when I photographed the *outside* of a surface station building,
*from the public road*. He claimed no London Underground objects may be
photographed without such a permission. When I doubted his statement, he
withdrew into his office and said he would call the police. He never did.
The location: Roding Valley...
Rudi

Photography underground
 

In message .com,
alex_t writes

I'm using this to answer two points in this thread.

Are there any specific instructions for photographers on the
Underground? I was standing at the Baker Street station (Metropolitan
line platform) and tried to make photo of the local junction (at the
moment when train was passing it) - I was approached by two policemen
and told to stop photography and delete existing photos (they even
checked that the photos were deleted) as no photography allowed on the
Underground anymore due to the threat of the terrorism.

Is it true?

P.S. I was standing in the location permitted for the passengers and
photos without flash. Even more, I shot more then 10 stations during
the week, and this is the first incident of the kind (even though in
many locations I stood right next to station staff).

You may wish to refer them to the Station Staff who as far as I know are
actually in charge of the station. I would have also asked them to
provide evidence of this 'rule'.

As has been already stated, they have no authority to force you to
delete the pictures - only a court can do that.

I note in another message, someone being taken to task by station staff
about photography on London Underground stations. Well, you should
advise them to go and have a look up in their Working Reference Manual,
particularly part 10 of rule Sa109 which states:

10. Photography on stations
10.1 Passengers can take photographs with small cameras for private
purposes, provided
flashlights and/or tripods are not used
no obstruction or inconvenience is caused to staff and/or passengers.
10.2 Representatives of the media, press or photographic agencies and
film companies, and other persons taking photographs for commercial
purposes must first get permission from the Press Officer. See section
13 of this document.

This is taken from the 2002 WRM, but I'm fairly sure it's not been
amended since.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Photography underground
 

On 9 Mar 2007 10:50:37 -0800, "alex_t"
wrote:

Is it true?

No, though flash photography is not allowed for the reason that it may
distract drivers.

They acted outside their rights; if you've got their badge numbers or
names you could certainly attempt a complaint.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Photography underground
 

On Mar 10, 2:04 am, "Bob Wood" wrote:
,
asdf typed:

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 20:06:46 +0000, Ian Jelf wrote:

I found the quote:

"It's not all underground either. Apart from the Circle line, all
other lines thread their way through the City and go above ground
into the countryside."

Where, pray, are the Victoria Line and Waterloo & City "go above
ground into the countryside"?!
The Vic (along with several others) doesn't go through the City,
either.

City of Westminster?

Which city does the ELL go through?

Photography underground
 

alex_t wrote:
Are there any specific instructions for photographers on the
Underground? I was standing at the Baker Street station (Metropolitan
line platform) and tried to make photo of the local junction (at the
moment when train was passing it) - I was approached by two policemen
and told to stop photography and delete existing photos (they even
checked that the photos were deleted) as no photography allowed on the
Underground anymore due to the threat of the terrorism.

Visitors from the NYPD, perhaps?
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

Photography underground
 

David of Broadway wrote:

Visitors from the NYPD, perhaps?

Hardly. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/film...lming-faqs.asp

Photography underground
 

On Mar 10, 3:27 am, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:

The police also have no right whatsoever to demand that you delete
photographs from your camera.

The police have the right to do what the hell they like. Welcome to New
Labour's Britain!

I know you're not being wholly serious, but this isn't exactly the
case.

Unfortunately, the OP doesn't seem to have taken down enough details
(but CCTV might fill some gaps with this being a tube station), but
had he done so, he should fire off a letter stating:

1) the date and approximate time of the incident
2) the names and numbers of the policemen who exceeded their authority
3) a description of how they exceeded their authority (basically, what
happened)
4) the fact that damage was caused as a result of the policemen's
actions (deletions are damage)
5) names and addresses of any witnesses
6) permission to advise any involved parties of the existence and
content of your letter (bloody DPA!)

Then send it off to:

The Independent Police Complaints Commission,
90, High Holborn,
LONDON WC1V 6BH.

It would also be advisable to send a CC to:

Chief Constable I. Johnston,
British Transport Police,
25, Camden Road,
LONDON NW1 9LN.

It's tempting to add CCs to the BBC, the Times, and the Evening
Standard, but that's probably overkill.

James.

Photography underground
 

"Rick Blaine" wrote in message
...
David of Broadway wrote:

Visitors from the NYPD, perhaps?

Hardly. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/film...lming-faqs.asp

As noted earlier - those are only the rules for commercial filming and
photography - the problem is that the rules that do allow private
photography are not accessible from the website...

Paul

Photography underground
 

"Paul Scott" wrote:

Hardly. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/film...lming-faqs.asp

As noted earlier - those are only the rules for commercial filming and
photography - the problem is that the rules that do allow private
photography are not accessible from the website...

I don't think so - there's very obvious provisions for student filming, which
isn't considered commercial. Futhermore the first two rules state:

Do you need to obtain permission to film or photograph on London Underground?

Yes. Anybody wanting to film or take pictures must seek prior permission from
the London Underground Film Office.

How do you apply for a permit to film on the London Underground?

For all individuals and film production companies applying for a permit, you you
can email the London Underground Film Office to apply for a filming or
photography permit.


Note the references to "anybody" and "all individuals" - not just commercial
photographers...

Photography underground
 

"Rick Blaine" wrote in message
...
"Paul Scott" wrote:

Hardly. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/film...lming-faqs.asp

As noted earlier - those are only the rules for commercial filming and
photography - the problem is that the rules that do allow private
photography are not accessible from the website...

I don't think so - there's very obvious provisions for student filming,
which
isn't considered commercial. Futhermore the first two rules state:


Please see earlier posts - especially the one by Steve Fitzgerald on 10/3
containing the extract from the LU staff manual:

10. Photography on stations

10.1 Passengers can take photographs with small cameras for private
purposes, provided
flashlights and/or tripods are not used
no obstruction or inconvenience is caused to staff and/or passengers.

10.2 Representatives of the media, press or photographic agencies and
film companies, and other persons taking photographs for commercial
purposes must first get permission from the Press Officer. See section
13 of this document

Paul

Photography underground
 

In oups.com,
Paul Weaver typed:
On Mar 10, 2:04 am, "Bob Wood" wrote:
,
asdf typed:

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 20:06:46 +0000, Ian Jelf wrote:

I found the quote:

"It's not all underground either. Apart from the Circle line, all
other lines thread their way through the City and go above ground
into the countryside."

Where, pray, are the Victoria Line and Waterloo & City "go above
ground into the countryside"?!
The Vic (along with several others) doesn't go through the City,
either.

City of Westminster?

Which city does the ELL go through?


Didn't it used to go under Spitalfields City Farm? Does that count?




--
--
Bob

Photography underground
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

"Rick Blaine" wrote in message
...
"Paul Scott" wrote:

Hardly. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/film...lming-faqs.asp

As noted earlier - those are only the rules for commercial filming and
photography - the problem is that the rules that do allow private
photography are not accessible from the website...

I don't think so - there's very obvious provisions for student filming,
which
isn't considered commercial. Futhermore the first two rules state:


Please see earlier posts - especially the one by Steve Fitzgerald on 10/3
containing the extract from the LU staff manual:

10. Photography on stations

10.1 Passengers can take photographs with small cameras for private
purposes, provided
flashlights and/or tripods are not used
no obstruction or inconvenience is caused to staff and/or passengers.

10.2 Representatives of the media, press or photographic agencies and
film companies, and other persons taking photographs for commercial
purposes must first get permission from the Press Officer. See section
13 of this document

Paul

In the current Conditions of Carriage (Jan 007), there's the clear
implication that it's permissible to take non-flash photographs and
use a hand-held camera on London Underground stations and trains.
Otherwise presumably, all unlicensed photography would have been
banned outright.

quote

4.5. For safety reasons, on our buses, in our bus stations and
on London Underground stations and trains you must not:

• smoke

• use bicycles, roller skates, roller blades, scooters or skateboards

• take flash photographs and/or use a tripod or other camera support
equipment
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^

• use emergency exits except in an emergency or when instructed to do so by
our staff

/quote

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...ary-2-2007.pdf


michael adams

....

Photography underground
 

Were they
"real" police or "plastic" community support officers?

What do you mean by "plastic"? IMHO they had usual police hats and
clothes, then again - I'm ignorant immigrant who had never have any
contact with the police before...


The main issue is to check with the station supervisor so they know you
are there and can provide any requisite local knowledge.

Seems a bit unreasonable - if all anoraks will start contacting
station supervisors, when would they do their work?

Photography underground
 

alex_t wrote:
Were they
"real" police or "plastic" community support officers?

What do you mean by "plastic"? IMHO they had usual police hats and
clothes, then again - I'm ignorant immigrant who had never have any
contact with the police before...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_...upport_Officer
--
Michael Hoffman

Photography underground
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_...upport_Officer

Thank you for the link, now I can see that they were (most likely)
PCSOs... at least colours were as described in the article + high
visibility clothing... :-/

Photography underground
 

alex_t wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_...upport_Officer

Thank you for the link, now I can see that they were (most likely)
PCSOs... at least colours were as described in the article + high
visibility clothing... :-/

But constables also wear high-vis clothing and similar colors. You can
tell a PCSO because their clothing will be labeled COMMUNITY SUPPORT
OFFICER in addition or instead of POLICE.
--
Michael Hoffman

Photography underground
 

On 12 Mar 2007 09:49:59 -0700, "alex_t"
wrote:


Were they
"real" police or "plastic" community support officers?

What do you mean by "plastic"? IMHO they had usual police hats and
clothes, then again - I'm ignorant immigrant who had never have any
contact with the police before...

Yes they look like policemen and we're supposed to believe that they are
policemen but they aren't. In my experience they are probably well
meaning people trying to do their bit for society but some are a bit too
stupid or arrogant for their own good. They therefore like to believe
they have "power" over individuals going about their business and the
stupid ones then believe they are doing their job by making treating the
public, who they are to serve, like morons. My own encounter with such
an idiot has soured my view of community support officers. Stories from
a range of other people simply confirm my worst suspicions. I say this
despite being fully aware of the current security issues and concerns.

Almost all properly trained policemen and women are capable of
exercising appropriate discretion, judgement and civility in their
dealings with the public. This way they get the respect they deserve in
return.

If I had the choice of 1,000 properly trained policemen vs 2,500
community support officers I'd go for the 1,000 policemen every time.

The main issue is to check with the station supervisor so they know you
are there and can provide any requisite local knowledge.

Seems a bit unreasonable - if all anoraks will start contacting
station supervisors, when would they do their work?

It is not at all unreasonable - it is the minimum sensible thing to do.
Most supervisors will be perfectly amenable and will be pleased that
someone has taken the trouble to identify themselves and to ask the
right questions/ obtain permission. It saves a lot of work and hassle
compared to having to deal with someone wandering around but obviously
not catching a train. Some of our better supervisors would probably
point out the best things to take a picture of if they are at one of our
more photogenic stations.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Photography underground
 

But constables also wear high-vis clothing and similar colors. You can
tell a PCSO because their clothing will be labeled COMMUNITY SUPPORT
OFFICER in addition or instead of POLICE.

Well, then I have no idea - unfortunately I did not read the labels :(

Photography underground
 

On Mon, Mar 12, 2007 at 06:20:56PM +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

Almost all properly trained policemen and women are capable of
exercising appropriate discretion, judgement and civility in their
dealings with the public.

They are? Coulda fooled me. The impression I've got from dealing with
the filth a few times is that people only join the police because
they're too stupid to do anything productive and too nasty to be allowed
to join the army.

It comes as a pleasant surprise when the occasional officer turns out to
not fit that, but they are few and far between.

This way they get the respect they deserve in
return.

Oh they certainly get the respect from me that they deserve.

If I had the choice of 1,000 properly trained policemen vs 2,500
community support officers I'd go for the 1,000 policemen every time.

Indeed. 1500 fewer arseholes in uniform has to be a good thing.

--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla.

Photography underground
 

If I had the choice of 1,000 properly trained policemen vs 2,500
community support officers I'd go for the 1,000 policemen every time.

Oh, well...


It is not at all unreasonable - it is the minimum sensible thing to do.

Well, I'll try next time :-)
I'm not sure where to search for station supervisors though - I
suppose they are not the people, who stand at the platforms and try to
control the passenger flow... oops, I mean... the *customer* flow.

Photography underground
 

alex_t wrote:
If I had the choice of 1,000 properly trained policemen vs 2,500
community support officers I'd go for the 1,000 policemen every time.

Oh, well...


It is not at all unreasonable - it is the minimum sensible thing to do.

Well, I'll try next time :-)
I'm not sure where to search for station supervisors though - I
suppose they are not the people, who stand at the platforms and try to
control the passenger flow... oops, I mean... the *customer* flow.

I'm sure any staff member in the station will know, though ;)
--
Michael Hoffman

Photography underground
 

• take flash photographs and/or use a tripod or other camera support
equipment
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^

Last year for a non-commercial photo project I was doing I asked if I
could use a tripod at East Putney Station because I wanted to take
long exposure photo as a train came into the station.

They said yes - provided
It was not at rush-hour.
I did not obstruct anybody
I did not use flash
I kept all equipment behind the yellow line.

I was quite happy to comply with these conditions and had a good chat
with the station manager who was keen on photography himself.