Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message om,
Mizter T writes


I've personally no objection to people using the NLL to lug stuff
around, off-peak - after all they're letting the train take the
strain whereas otherwise they might be another car owner or car
driver clogging the roads up. Let the frontier spirit continue!

I don't travel on it off peak, all my experiences are between
8 and 9 in the morning and 5.30 to 7(ish) of an evening. The
guys with the flat packs were on already crowded trains. Plus
despite it being Eco friendly the mix of flesh and push bikes is an
accident waiting to happen.

(1) the buses are probably already carrying a number of passengers
on journeys that could be done on the NLL, thus relieving a bit of
the strain on the route

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on them
!

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I absolutely agree that it looks like it needs to be done, but I
think TfL will want to get their feet under the table first before
they start making demands for more money from the government - I'm
sure
this explains the silence on this issue from TfL so far. Be certain
though that the bods at TfL Rail - and indeed the Mayor - are
aware of the state of the NLL, and are laying out their plans as
we speak.
Will the public be that patient and understanding ? Or will it be an
acolyte of Mr Cameron trying to sort the mess out ?

New trains ordered August 2006. Also see:
http://www.alwaystouchout.com/projec...ceImprovements

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In message , Richard J.
writes

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on them
!

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I know it's away from the thread, but I really think Oyster isn't the
solution for many people who Ken should be helping. The out of work off
to the odd interview, granny on a special trip.... they just aren't
catered for, and of course it can hit tourists hard if they aren't
prepared for it.

Mind you aren't the Venezuelans taking pity on poor old third world
London and helping out with a few bob ? :-)

--
Edward Cowling London UK

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message ,
Richard J. writes

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on
them !

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I know it's away from the thread, but I really think Oyster isn't
the solution for many people who Ken should be helping. The out of
work off to the odd interview,

Ah, yes, the mythical scenario where the unemployed person goes to only
one interview and never makes any other journeys by bus. I don't believe
it.

granny on a special trip

Between 04:30 and 09:00? (It's free with her Freedom Pass at other
times!)

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , Richard J.
writes

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on them
!

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I know it's away from the thread, but I really think Oyster isn't the
solution for many people who Ken should be helping. The out of work off
to the odd interview, granny on a special trip.... they just aren't
catered for, and of course it can hit tourists hard if they aren't
prepared for it.

Prepared for what? I had no trouble obtaining an Oyster card at Heathrow.

And I can't understand why anyone who lives in the London area or ever
visits the London area wouldn't have an Oyster card.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

In message , David of Broadway
writes
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , Richard
J. writes

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on them
!

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I know it's away from the thread, but I really think Oyster isn't the
solution for many people who Ken should be helping. The out of work
off to the odd interview, granny on a special trip.... they just
aren't catered for, and of course it can hit tourists hard if they
aren't prepared for it.

Prepared for what? I had no trouble obtaining an Oyster card at Heathrow.

And I can't understand why anyone who lives in the London area or ever
visits the London area wouldn't have an Oyster card.

Can you name the Paris Metro similar system ? Are you aware where you
buy it ? How about New York, or maybe Moscow ?

I think you're being a might near sighted about this. I'm sure a great
many tourists arrive here without a clue about Oyster and (to their
mind) get ripped off for expensive fares.

Ken needs to stop inflating cash paid fares and return to the old system
that worked well since.... well forever !

--
Edward Cowling London UK

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , David of Broadway
writes
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , Richard
J. writes

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on them
!

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I know it's away from the thread, but I really think Oyster isn't the
solution for many people who Ken should be helping. The out of work
off to the odd interview, granny on a special trip.... they just
aren't catered for, and of course it can hit tourists hard if they
aren't prepared for it.

Prepared for what? I had no trouble obtaining an Oyster card at
Heathrow.

And I can't understand why anyone who lives in the London area or ever
visits the London area wouldn't have an Oyster card.

Can you name the Paris Metro similar system ? Are you aware where you
buy it ? How about New York, or maybe Moscow ?

See my sig. I live in New York. (I visited London the past two summers.)

I think you're being a might near sighted about this. I'm sure a great
many tourists arrive here without a clue about Oyster and (to their
mind) get ripped off for expensive fares.

It's always a good idea to do a bit of research before traveling.

Still, for those who haven't done research, Oyster is advertised all
over the place, and the ads make it quite clear that Oyster fares are
cheaper than cash fares.

Perhaps the solution is to stop offering individual tickets entirely. I
wouldn't be surprised if that's the ultimate plan. New York gave up its
traditional tokens in 2002 or 2003.

Ken needs to stop inflating cash paid fares and return to the old system
that worked well since.... well forever !

You like to stand in line to buy a ticket each time you travel?

You like to have to pay extension fares in advance, once per trip?

You don't see the value in daily capping?

You don't see the vastly reduced costs in cash collection?

Oyster may not be perfect but it's a lot better than what you'll find in
most cities.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

I visited New York City a while ago, and I thought that you could buy a
single fare for $2, albeit in the form of a magnetic strip.

BTW, what are they doing over there in terms of introducing a SmartCard for
longer lengths of time? Those flimsy MetroCards with their magnetic strips
are so out of fashion.

"David of Broadway" wrote in message
...
Perhaps the solution is to stop offering individual tickets entirely. I
wouldn't be surprised if that's the ultimate plan. New York gave up its
traditional tokens in 2002 or 2003.

wrote:
I visited New York City a while ago, and I thought that you could buy a
single fare for $2, albeit in the form of a magnetic strip.

That was a SingleRide card. It's essentially a paper MetroCard with a
two-hour time limit and no intermodal transfers.

BTW, what are they doing over there in terms of introducing a SmartCard for
longer lengths of time? Those flimsy MetroCards with their magnetic strips
are so out of fashion.

We're working on it! A pilot program was recently completed on the
Lexington Avenue line.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:06:34 +0000, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote:

In message , David of Broadway
writes
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , Richard
J. writes

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on them
!

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I know it's away from the thread, but I really think Oyster isn't the
solution for many people who Ken should be helping. The out of work
off to the odd interview, granny on a special trip.... they just
aren't catered for, and of course it can hit tourists hard if they
aren't prepared for it.

Prepared for what? I had no trouble obtaining an Oyster card at Heathrow.

And I can't understand why anyone who lives in the London area or ever
visits the London area wouldn't have an Oyster card.

Can you name the Paris Metro similar system ?

Please note these responses are from memory and I have not checked
websites.

Mobilis is the day ticket. Carnet is for more occasional users. They
have not yet implemented a PAYG system but seasons are on Smartcard. If
you want to be ripped off you can buy a Paris Visite - just like the way
we used to rip off tourists with Visitor Travelcards. I don't recall
people howling about how unfair that was and how discriminatory it was
given the accusations placed against Oyster.

Are you aware where you
buy it ?

Every SNCF and RATP station in Paris system will sell a Mobilis, every
RATP station will sell a Carnet and you can buy Paris Visite at Waterloo
Eurostar if you want. You used to be able to buy on the train but I
think that's been stopped now.

How about New York,

Metrocard - either in a PAYG type format but with an effective %
discount or unlimited rides over a fixed time period. All Subway
stations with a manned ticket booth sell them as a minimum. There may be
other outlets but it's been years since I've been to NYC. until the
yanks stop treating all visitors as potential criminals and terrorists
it will be a long time before I visit again despite the fact I love the
city.

or maybe Moscow ?

Never been and never checked. From memory there used to be tokens in
use but I understand a smartcard system has been installed on the Moscow
Metro. Representatives came across to see London's early smartcard
trials at Harrow and were very impressed.

Singapore is the EZ Pass and I have one in my wallet.

Hong Kong is Octopus and I held one of those cards for years and years
until the card regrettably failed on my penultimate journey on my last
visit there.

None of this is remotely difficult to deal with or understand. Just
about every guide book I have ever bought has a decent section on local
public transport and tickets and my Rough Guide to London (2003 edition
so before Oyster) has a good, clear explanation of ticketing options
available then. I imagine it deals with Oyster in the same way in the
latest edition.

I think you're being a might near sighted about this. I'm sure a great
many tourists arrive here without a clue about Oyster and (to their
mind) get ripped off for expensive fares.

As Mr Jelf will vouch a great many tourists are so terrified by the mere
thought of going anywhere by public transport that they never travel by
tube or by bus. Personally I think they are missing out hugely but
obviously you are routinely raped, attacked and assaulted every time you
go within ½ a mile of a bus stop or tube platform ;-)

As for the rest many people are in possession of brains and do suitable
research in advance of arrival - as I do when I visit somewhere else.
This group provides a decent amount of informal advice on exactly this
subject.

TfL are taking additional steps to improve the availability of Oyster
based travel to visitors and I'm sure it will be just as good as it was
when the old network of agents were tasked with flogging overpriced
Visitor Travelcards.

Usually my first purchase on arrival is a ride at will ticket that gives
me freedom and flexibility to go as I please. I have never encountered
a problem with doing this anywhere in the world.

Ken needs to stop inflating cash paid fares and return to the old system
that worked well since.... well forever !

Which is simply not going to happen. There will be no return to the old
system although I imagine differentials may moderate once Oyster is
available on all modes across all of London and take up rates on Oyster
are very high.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:

Metrocard - either in a PAYG type format but with an effective %
discount or unlimited rides over a fixed time period. All Subway
stations with a manned ticket booth sell them as a minimum.

There are also vending machines at all station entrances, manned and
unmanned alike. Unlike at the booths, credit and debit cards are valid
at the machines.

There may be
other outlets but it's been years since I've been to NYC.

There are, although I haven't used any since 2001, when CitySearch
stopped selling MetroCards by mail order.

The one-day unlimited Fun Pass (which, at $7, is a ripoff) is ONLY sold
at vending machines and at out-of-system vendors -- it is NOT sold at
booths.

until the
yanks stop treating all visitors as potential criminals and terrorists
it will be a long time before I visit again despite the fact I love the
city.

If it's any consolations, citizens are treated similarly.

In under two years, we'll have a new president.

Singapore is the EZ Pass and I have one in my wallet.

Interesting. The automated toll collection system that started in the
New York area and has spread across the Northeast (U.S.) and beyond is
called E-ZPass.

Which is simply not going to happen. There will be no return to the old
system although I imagine differentials may moderate once Oyster is
available on all modes across all of London and take up rates on Oyster
are very high.

Quite reasonable.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA