On 17 Mar, 19:40, Tom Anderson wrote:
Not really possible. However, a plan was proposed here many moons ago to
four-track the NLL throughout, from Stratford to Camden Road west
junction; there's room in the formation to do it, with apparently only a
modest amount of land take needed towards the eastern end. With a flyover
at each end, you'd have a dedicated, grade-separated two-track freight
route across London, taking freight trains out of the NLL picture
altogether.

You might not need much extra land, but widening the formation east of
Dalston is surely beyond what's practical?

U

On 18 Mar 2007 04:08:56 -0700, "
wrote:

On 17 Mar, 19:40, Tom Anderson wrote:
Not really possible. However, a plan was proposed here many moons ago to
four-track the NLL throughout, from Stratford to Camden Road west
junction; there's room in the formation to do it, with apparently only a
modest amount of land take needed towards the eastern end. With a flyover
at each end, you'd have a dedicated, grade-separated two-track freight
route across London, taking freight trains out of the NLL picture
altogether.

You might not need much extra land, but widening the formation east of
Dalston is surely beyond what's practical?

I've probably not been paying a lot of attention but even trying to get
4 tracks through Hackney Central and under the mainline (Hackney Downs)
looks like a pretty tall order to me. You'd certainly be demolishing
property in the centre of Hackney including part of Clapton Bus garage
to get 4 tracks there unless I am really underestimating how wide the
alignment is. I'm not very familiar with the line east of Hackney
Central but again I think there is property close to the alignment the
whole way and I don't recall it being 4 track in the past. For those
who know better then I'm happy to be updated on what the formation is
really like.

West of Dalston I'd fully agree that 4 tracks all the way to Camden Road
is sensible and should be done with appropriate flexibility put in place
to allow passengers trains the ability to "get round" problems that
might occur on their usual 2 tracks.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 18 Mar, 12:08, Paul Corfield wrote:
On 18 Mar 2007 04:08:56 -0700, "

wrote:
On 17 Mar, 19:40, Tom Anderson wrote:
Not really possible. However, a plan was proposed here many moons ago to
four-track the NLL throughout, from Stratford to Camden Road west
junction; there's room in the formation to do it, with apparently only a
modest amount of land take needed towards the eastern end. With a flyover
at each end, you'd have a dedicated, grade-separated two-track freight
route across London, taking freight trains out of the NLL picture
altogether.

You might not need much extra land, but widening the formation east of
Dalston is surely beyond what's practical?

I've probably not been paying a lot of attention but even trying to get
4 tracks through Hackney Central and under the mainline (Hackney Downs)
looks like a pretty tall order to me. You'd certainly be demolishing
property in the centre of Hackney including part of Clapton Bus garage
to get 4 tracks there unless I am really underestimating how wide the
alignment is. I'm not very familiar with the line east of Hackney
Central but again I think there is property close to the alignment the
whole way and I don't recall it being 4 track in the past. For those
who know better then I'm happy to be updated on what the formation is
really like.

West of Dalston I'd fully agree that 4 tracks all the way to Camden Road
is sensible and should be done with appropriate flexibility put in place
to allow passengers trains the ability to "get round" problems that
might occur on their usual 2 tracks.
--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!

Could the CTRL tunnels from Dalston to Kings Cross and then onto NLL
be used for night-time freight ?
Baz

On 18 Mar 2007 05:41:47 -0700, "Marratxi"
wrote:

Could the CTRL tunnels from Dalston to Kings Cross and then onto NLL
be used for night-time freight ?

the tunnels have no entry point at Dalston other than a deep vertical
shaft! They start near Barking IIRC but I really don't know if there is
a surface link there or not. If not I expect the nearest junction is
somewhere in Kent which doesn't really provide any solution with respect
to freight from north of the Thames.

I think there is a link in the mass of lines near Kings Cross from CTRL
onto the NLL and possibly other lines but that might involve reversal.

There is also the issue of night time track inspections which might
reduce the ability to run night time freights. Not sure how Network Rail
will look after CTRL but I expect the fact that it is new should mean a
more sophisticated approach to preventative and corrective maintenance
of the infrastructure.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mar 18, 1:05 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
If not I expect the nearest junction is
somewhere in Kent which doesn't really provide any solution with respect
to freight from north of the Thames.

The tunnel mouth is here in Dagenham:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=51....917&t =k&om=1

Immediately north of it is the LTS line where all the freight arrives
in London from, so a junction here would be very easy.

I think there is a link in the mass of lines near Kings Cross from CTRL
onto the NLL and possibly other lines but that might involve reversal.

That's the CTRL on the right and the NLL junction on the left:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?om=1&i...2,0.022917&t=k

So this is actually a very good route, but I doubnt it'd be allowed.

Not sure how Network Rail will look after CTRL

I don't know if they will look after it. They certainly don't own it.

U

wrote in message
oups.com...


I think there is a link in the mass of lines near Kings Cross from CTRL
onto the NLL and possibly other lines but that might involve reversal.

That's the CTRL on the right and the NLL junction on the left:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?om=1&i...2,0.022917&t=k

So this is actually a very good route, but I doubnt it'd be allowed.

Not sure how Network Rail will look after CTRL

I don't know if they will look after it. They certainly don't own it.


Network Rail (CTRL) Ltd, a subsidiary company of Network Rail Infrastructure
Ltd have the concession to operate, maintain and renew the CTRL, and to run
St Pancras station.

I'm no expert, but I suspect once London & Continental Railways (LCR) have
completed the railway, they will sell it on to someone else, and concentrate
on the building projects on the Kings Cross railway lands and at Stratford
City. I think they tried to sell the railway in 2005 or so, but the
government persuaded them to wait until it is finished...

Paul

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007, wrote:

On Mar 18, 1:05 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

If not I expect the nearest junction is
somewhere in Kent which doesn't really provide any solution with respect
to freight from north of the Thames.

The tunnel mouth is here in Dagenham:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=51....917&t =k&om=1

Immediately north of it is the LTS line where all the freight arrives in
London from, so a junction here would be very easy.

Not all - only that from Tilbury and Dagenham (and Shell Haven when/if it
opens); trains from Felixstowe et al come in on the GEML, to the north. I
don't think there's any way from the GEML to the LTS east of the portal,
at least not without reversing.

Still, the LTS fraction of the freight is not insubstantial (about half, i
think), the volume will increase if Shell Haven happens, so this could be
very useful.

It's a shame that the portal is to the east of the Ripple Lane yard - that
means intermodal traffic coming through there can't use it (although i
suppose a reversing siding to the wast would not be impossible). That
said, i don't know how busy Ripple Lane is these days; i vaguely remember
reading that it's going or gone. Or am i thinking of LIFT at Stratford?
Anyway, the portal is at least to the west of the huge Ford works at
Dagenham.

tom

--
Destroy - kill all hippies.