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Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
Was platform 1 at Clapham Junction ever used?
There are a load of disused sidings behind it so the right of the Putney line looking towards Putney. What were these for? Is the disuse related to the ghost platform at Queenstown Road all painted blue with 'don not alight here' Just curious. I always like to know why things fall into disuse. mf |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
"Mystery Flyer" wrote in message ... Was platform 1 at Clapham Junction ever used? There are a load of disused sidings behind it so the right of the Putney line looking towards Putney. What were these for? Is the disuse related to the ghost platform at Queenstown Road all painted blue with 'don not alight here' Just curious. I always like to know why things fall into disuse. I don't believe the changes were are in any way connected, but I cannot recall the exact usage of CJ platform 1. The platform arrangement at Queenstown Rd changed when the track usage was altered to allow for the Stewarts Lane/Nine Elms flyover for Eurostar. The 4 tracks for the WIndsor direction used to reduce to 3 just west of Queenstown Rd, now they effectively reduce to the 2 platform lines, leaving the single line on the north side of the formation for empty stock moves between Eurostar's North Pole depot and the International platforms. Paul |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
Paul Scott wrote:
"Mystery Flyer" wrote in message ... Was platform 1 at Clapham Junction ever used? There are a load of disused sidings behind it so the right of the Putney line looking towards Putney. What were these for? Is the disuse related to the ghost platform at Queenstown Road all painted blue with 'don not alight here' Just curious. I always like to know why things fall into disuse. I don't believe the changes were are in any way connected, but I cannot recall the exact usage of CJ platform 1. The platform arrangement at Queenstown Rd changed when the track usage was altered to allow for the Stewarts Lane/Nine Elms flyover for Eurostar. The 4 tracks for the WIndsor direction used to reduce to 3 just west of Queenstown Rd, now they effectively reduce to the 2 platform lines, leaving the single line on the north side of the formation for empty stock moves between Eurostar's North Pole depot and the International platforms. Paul Thanks very much Paul most informative.. mf |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Jun 26, 8:19?pm, Mystery Flyer wrote:
Paul Scott wrote: "Mystery Flyer" wrote in message ... Was platform 1 at Clapham Junction ever used? There are a load of disused sidings behind it so the right of the Putney line looking towards Putney. What were these for? Is the disuse related to the ghost platform at Queenstown Road all painted blue with 'don not alight here' Just curious. I always like to know why things fall into disuse. I don't believe the changes were are in any way connected, but I cannot recall the exact usage of CJ platform 1. The platform arrangement at Queenstown Rd changed when the track usage was altered to allow for the Stewarts Lane/Nine Elms flyover for Eurostar. The 4 tracks for the WIndsor direction used to reduce to 3 just west of Queenstown Rd, now they effectively reduce to the 2 platform lines, leaving the single line on the north side of the formation for empty stock moves between Eurostar's North Pole depot and the International platforms. Paul Thanks very much Paul most informative.. mf- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I can remember as late as 1977 (possibly 1978) what is now the disused platform 1 at Clapham Junction was used for the sorting of mail/ parcels, with a line-up of old B.R. GUV vans etc. parked there, and material manhandled from one to another. I think those sidings to the West of this platform were used mainly by mail- and goods-related rolling stock. Also, there were lifts from platform level to the overbridge, so that parcels etc. could be taken along the overbridge to the other platforms (I seem to remember BRUTE trolleys and tractors once in use there) and the old Parcels office which is adjacent to Platform 17. My fondest memory of 1977/9 (my mis-spent youth there, trainspotting!) is seeing Class 08 / 09 shunters at work in the main central sidings area, shunting rolling stock from one siding to another. Although not in personal experience, I remember reading that the disused platform at Queenstown Road was used by milk-tank carring wagons for pumping out milk to a dairy that was once situated nearby. Marc. |
Clapham Junction Disused platform 1
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Clapham Junction Disused platform 1
On Jun 27, 12:39?am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article .com, () wrote: Although not in personal experience, I remember reading that the disused platform at Queenstown Road was used by milk-tank carring wagons for pumping out milk to a dairy that was once situated nearby. That was platform 1 at Vauxhall. I remember many times seeing milk trains unloading there after their trip up from the West Country. -- Colin Rosenstiel Of course, Colin, you're right! Marc. |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
In message , Mystery Flyer
writes Was platform 1 at Clapham Junction ever used? Yes, IIRC it was the original departure platform for services leaving via the West London line (originally just to Kensington, but later there were a number of others, such as the LSWR's roundabout route from Clapham Junction to Richmond via Kensington and Hammersmith). Trains would arrive at platform 2, detrain, and then pull into the carriage sidings to the west of the station, where the engine could run round the carriages and then pull back into platform 1 for departure. -- Paul Terry |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Jun 27, 5:40 am, Paul Terry wrote:
Yes, IIRC it was the original departure platform for services leaving via the West London line (originally just to Kensington, but later there were a number of others, such as the LSWR's roundabout route from Clapham Junction to Richmond via Kensington and Hammersmith). Trains would arrive at platform 2, detrain, and then pull into the carriage sidings to the west of the station, where the engine could run round the carriages and then pull back into platform 1 for departure. Is this platform planned to be brought into use by TfL as part of any new Overground services to Clapham Junction? |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
In message .com,
TheOneKEA writes Is this platform planned to be brought into use by TfL as part of any new Overground services to Clapham Junction? I think it will when the East London Line Extension reaches Clapham Junction. The likely scenario seems to be that London Overground services running anticlockwise (i.e. on the ELLE) will use platform 2, while those running clockwise (i.e. on the West London Line) will move across to platform 1, thus offering cross-platform interchange. -- Paul Terry |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
"Paul Terry" wrote in message ... In message .com, TheOneKEA writes Is this platform planned to be brought into use by TfL as part of any new Overground services to Clapham Junction? I think it will when the East London Line Extension reaches Clapham Junction. The likely scenario seems to be that London Overground services running anticlockwise (i.e. on the ELLE) will use platform 2, while those running clockwise (i.e. on the West London Line) will move across to platform 1, thus offering cross-platform interchange. That fits in with everything I've read. Its considered impossible to run a reliable orbital service due to pathing and signalling constraints - a bit like the circle line really... Its interesting that the various proposals suggest that the trains running on the existing West London Line will be considered part of the North London Line, and those on the existing South London Line part of the East London Line; I wondered at first if the TfL planners were a bit geographically challenged, but it works if you consider getting on at CJ, platform 1 for trains round to North London, and platform 2 for trains round to the East. I think one issue if they manage to beef up the frequencies will be the fact that other WLL services will still be using platforms 16 and 17, its a pity all the services can't go from one part of the station, or can they? Paul |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:25:59 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote: "Paul Terry" wrote in message ... In message .com, TheOneKEA writes Is this platform planned to be brought into use by TfL as part of any new Overground services to Clapham Junction? I think it will when the East London Line Extension reaches Clapham Junction. The likely scenario seems to be that London Overground services running anticlockwise (i.e. on the ELLE) will use platform 2, while those running clockwise (i.e. on the West London Line) will move across to platform 1, thus offering cross-platform interchange. Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey? That fits in with everything I've read. Its considered impossible to run a reliable orbital service due to pathing and signalling constraints - a bit like the circle line really... I think the S Bahn operators in Berlin might disagree with you. They seem to run a circular Ring Bahn perfectly well and also schedule overlap services over parts of the entire circuit to bolster frequencies and provide links onto radial S Bahn lines. I've used it and it seems pretty reliable to me and also well patronised. Circular services are only a problem when you try to run them with inadequate infrastructure or schedules that are too tight - are that would be why can't run them in this country then! -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:25:59 +0100, "Paul Scott" wrote: Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey? That fits in with everything I've read. Its considered impossible to run a reliable orbital service due to pathing and signalling constraints - a bit like the circle line really... I think the S Bahn operators in Berlin might disagree with you. They seem to run a circular Ring Bahn perfectly well and also schedule overlap services over parts of the entire circuit to bolster frequencies and provide links onto radial S Bahn lines. I've used it and it seems pretty reliable to me and also well patronised. Circular services are only a problem when you try to run them with inadequate infrastructure or schedules that are too tight - are that would be why can't run them in this country then! I believe thats the background to the T-cup proposals for the circle line and H&C isn't it? Paul S |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
In message , Paul Corfield
writes "Paul Terry" wrote in message ... Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey? Yes, that's my understanding. On the map accessible from ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/..._feature.shtml Clapham Junction is shown as an interchange between the clockwise and anticlockwise routes, rather than as a through station. I guess it would be possible for trains to reverse at Clapham Junction and continue round the circle, but I imagine that it could produce all sorts of operating problems. -- Paul Terry |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Jun 30, 5:54 pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Paul Corfield writes "Paul Terry" wrote in message ... Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey? Yes, that's my understanding. On the map accessible from ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/.../overground_tr... Clapham Junction is shown as an interchange between the clockwise and anticlockwise routes, rather than as a through station. I guess it would be possible for trains to reverse at Clapham Junction and continue round the circle, but I imagine that it could produce all sorts of operating problems. -- Paul Terry It would mean that trains arriving and departing would sometimes have to cross, but that happens at many two-platform termini with genuine metro frequencies (eg Elephant and Castle, Brixton). A dedicated platform for each direction would be a nice luxury, but would it be necessary with the frequencies planned? |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Jun 30, 6:21?pm, MIG wrote:
On Jun 30, 5:54 pm, Paul Terry wrote: In message , Paul Corfield writes "Paul Terry" wrote in message ... Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey? Yes, that's my understanding. On the map accessible from ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/.../overground_tr... Clapham Junction is shown as an interchange between the clockwise and anticlockwise routes, rather than as a through station. I guess it would be possible for trains to reverse at Clapham Junction and continue round the circle, but I imagine that it could produce all sorts of operating problems. -- Paul Terry It would mean that trains arriving and departing would sometimes have to cross, but that happens at many two-platform termini with genuine metro frequencies (eg Elephant and Castle, Brixton). A dedicated platform for each direction would be a nice luxury, but would it be necessary with the frequencies planned?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Follow this link for a pictue of Platform 1 in use in 1971:- http://johnlawontherails.fotopic.net/p37188651.html Marc. |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Paul Corfield writes "Paul Terry" wrote in message ... Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey? Yes, that's my understanding. On the map accessible from ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/..._feature.shtml Clapham Junction is shown as an interchange between the clockwise and anticlockwise routes, rather than as a through station. I guess it would be possible for trains to reverse at Clapham Junction and continue round the circle, but I imagine that it could produce all sorts of operating problems. I can't think of any, unless you mean "reverse *promptly* at Clapham Junction and continue round the circle". It should produce a more robust service if the trains *do* continue around the circle, after a suitable wait... that way problems which affect the clockwise can't affect the anti and vice versa. |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On 30 Jun, 14:49, Paul Corfield wrote:
Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey? I think TfL are quite keen to keep the "North London Railway" and "East London Railway" segments of London Overground separate. The two will be different operationally and have separate fleets of trains, for one thing. This pretty much precludes any kind of round-the-corner service at Clapham Junction. U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
Here are some photographs of the Clapham Junction sidings next to platforms 1&2 in the 1950's http://www.southernrailway.net/searc...arch_fd0=35280 http://www.southernrailway.net/searc...arch_fd0=35338 http://www.southernrailway.net/searc...arch_fd0=35339 http://www.southernrailway.net/searc...arch_fd0=35918 nn :) |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
In message , John Rowland
writes Paul Terry wrote: I guess it would be possible for trains to reverse at Clapham Junction and continue round the circle, but I imagine that it could produce all sorts of operating problems. I can't think of any, unless you mean "reverse *promptly* at Clapham Junction and continue round the circle". Clockwise and anticlockwise services would have to cross on the level just outside the station if they were not to terminate at Clapham Junction. Pathing on the WLL will be difficult because it is shared with a number of other services, so there is likely to be little or no flexibility to schedule services to make optimum use of such a crossover - and delays on the WLL leg would then have a bad knock-on effect on the ELLE leg. Pathing on the ELLE should be easier, but it is likely that the line will have to be shared with some sort of SLL service to Victoria, so there is all sorts of potential for circle-line-like delays - breaking the service at Clapham Junction should help mitigate that. It should produce a more robust service if the trains *do* continue around the circle, after a suitable wait... that way problems which affect the clockwise can't affect the anti and vice versa. I don't think that the Orbirail project will ever run a fully circular service, because of the potential for serious delays (like the circle line but infinitely worse). Nothing's decided, AFAIK, but clockwise services from Clapham Junction may terminate at Stratford for the Olympics, and at Barking thereafter, although it has also been suggested that they may (as at present) go no further than Willesden Junction. Anticlockwise may only go as far as Surrey Quays. -- Paul Terry |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
Paul Terry wrote:
It should produce a more robust service if the trains *do* continue around the circle, after a suitable wait... that way problems which affect the clockwise can't affect the anti and vice versa. I don't think that the Orbirail project will ever run a fully circular service, because of the potential for serious delays (like the circle line but infinitely worse). Maybe not a complete circular service, but some through services running across Clapham Junction would have clear attractions, especially as it would reduce the interchange pressure and give passengers a better indication of how long it will take to get to their destination. Back to back terminuses aren't as attractive for passengers - look at buses where there are mancy cases of two services on what is basically a single long route overlapping rather than having all the changeover in one place. That said I'm not sure where the natural terminuses for a reasonable service running across Clapham are. |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Sun, 1 Jul 2007, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , John Rowland writes Paul Terry wrote: I guess it would be possible for trains to reverse at Clapham Junction and continue round the circle, but I imagine that it could produce all sorts of operating problems. I can't think of any, unless you mean "reverse *promptly* at Clapham Junction and continue round the circle". Clockwise and anticlockwise services would have to cross on the level just outside the station if they were not to terminate at Clapham Junction. There is another option - if trains didn't visit Clapham Junction at all, they could go from Imperial Wharf to Wandsworth Road directly, without reversing. I don't have a track map to hand, but ISTR that this can be done without conflicting movements across other tracks. Pathing on the ELLE should be easier, but it is likely that the line will have to be shared with some sort of SLL service to Victoria, so there is all sorts of potential for circle-line-like delays - breaking the service at Clapham Junction should help mitigate that. The other branch of the ELL will also share with all sorts of things in the Croydon direction; performance pollution here would be able to spread to the Clapham branch via the core, albeit probably not very strongly. tom -- Destroy! DESTROY! DEEEEEEE-STROY 2000 YEARS OF CULTCHAH!! -- Andrew |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:24:18 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote in message .. . Circular services are only a problem when you try to run them with inadequate infrastructure or schedules that are too tight - are that would be why can't run them in this country then! I believe thats the background to the T-cup proposals for the circle line and H&C isn't it? It may be but my point is that circular services can run properly if you get non conflicting junctions and adequate signalling capacity. This is what Berlin has got on its S Bahn and the service runs fine. The LU proposals are an attempt to create reliability without the huge construction costs of removing conflicting junctions of which there are many on the Circle / District line. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
In article ,
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: Paul Terry wrote: It should produce a more robust service if the trains *do* continue around the circle, after a suitable wait... that way problems which affect the clockwise can't affect the anti and vice versa. I don't think that the Orbirail project will ever run a fully circular service, because of the potential for serious delays (like the circle line but infinitely worse). Maybe not a complete circular service, but some through services running across Clapham Junction would have clear attractions, especially as it would reduce the interchange pressure and give passengers a better indication of how long it will take to get to their destination. Back to back terminuses aren't as attractive for passengers - look at buses where there are mancy cases of two services on what is basically a single long route overlapping rather than having all the changeover in one place. That said I'm not sure where the natural terminuses for a reasonable service running across Clapham are. Moorgate Street and Victoria :-) Seriously, the Inner Circle/District Line seems to work fairly well with a varity of places to turn back ahead of congestion. Building a straight-through platform and reversing crossovers at CJ might be a good way to plan the EWNSLLines, as a way of limiting disruption whilst enabling through journeys. But should there be a travolator to reach the platforms ... ? Nick -- http://www.leverton.org/blosxom ... So express yourself |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
In message , Tom
Anderson writes There is another option - if trains didn't visit Clapham Junction at all, they could go from Imperial Wharf to Wandsworth Road directly, without reversing. I don't have a track map to hand, but ISTR that this can be done without conflicting movements across other tracks. That is certainly true, but loss of connection at Clapham Junction (Britain's busiest railway station) would be a serious loss and would need the retention of the now popular Clapham-Willesden service, thus restricting the viability of an 'orbirail' service that by-passed Clapham Junction. -- Paul Terry |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
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Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
Paul Terry wrote:
I don't think that the Orbirail project will ever run a fully circular service, because of the potential for serious delays (like the circle line but infinitely worse). Nothing's decided, AFAIK, but clockwise services from Clapham Junction may terminate at Stratford for the Olympics, and at Barking thereafter, although it has also been suggested that they may (as at present) go no further than Willesden Junction. Where have you seen that suggestion? I thought that 8 tph on the North London Line east of Willesden Junction was a key feature of TfL's proposals in order to reduce overcrowding on the WJ-Stratford section. If the CJ-WJ shuttle stays in place, how would they achieve 8 tph east of WJ? -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Jul 1, 9:25 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
Where have you seen that suggestion? I thought that 8 tph on the North London Line east of Willesden Junction was a key feature of TfL's proposals in order to reduce overcrowding on the WJ-Stratford section. If the CJ-WJ shuttle stays in place, how would they achieve 8 tph east of WJ? East of Camden Road is what they care about, not WJ. This can handily be done by the proposed Queen's Park to Stratford service, or in a pinch a Camden Road - Stratford shuttle, as already operates in the peaks. U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Jul 1, 6:58 pm, Paul Terry wrote:
Pathing on the ELLE should be easier, but it is likely that the line will have to be shared with some sort of SLL service to Victoria, so there is all sorts of potential for circle-line-like delays - breaking the service at Clapham Junction should help mitigate that. I would expect the SLL service from London Victoria to be replaced by the ELL service to clapham junction. I think the Victoria - Denmark Hill - Lewisham service does share tracks with this in one direction through Denmark Hill, but it needn't. I don't think that the Orbirail project will ever run a fully circular service, because of the potential for serious delays (like the circle line but infinitely worse). Nothing's decided, AFAIK, but clockwise services from Clapham Junction may terminate at Stratford for the Olympics, and at Barking thereafter, although it has also been suggested that they may (as at present) go no further than Willesden Junction. Anticlockwise may only go as far as Surrey Quays. -- Paul Terry I haven't seen anywhere the idea of running services from clapham junction only as far as surrey quays - what'd be the point? Stopping one station away from the most important interchange on the line (Canada Water) would be really silly, and there aren't any extra platforms at Surrey Quays. With the Clapham Junction branch, there are planned to be 16 tph on the ELL, which it can surely cope with. |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
Mr Thant wrote:
On Jul 1, 9:25 pm, "Richard J." wrote: Where have you seen that suggestion? I thought that 8 tph on the North London Line east of Willesden Junction was a key feature of TfL's proposals in order to reduce overcrowding on the WJ-Stratford section. If the CJ-WJ shuttle stays in place, how would they achieve 8 tph east of WJ? East of Camden Road is what they care about, not WJ. This can handily be done by the proposed Queen's Park to Stratford service, or in a pinch a Camden Road - Stratford shuttle, as already operates in the peaks. The Queen's Park - Stratford service ia a post-2012 development that requires extra stock on the Bakerloo Line, and assumes that the Clapham J. - Willesden J. service will run via an electrified GOBLIN to Barking. Your suggestion that all "they" care about is Camden Road - Stratford doesn't fit well with the efforts they are making to create an orbital rail service. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Tom Anderson) wrote: There is another option - if trains didn't visit Clapham Junction at all, they could go from Imperial Wharf to Wandsworth Road directly, without reversing. I don't have a track map to hand, but ISTR that this can be done without conflicting movements across other tracks. Misses out a rather important traffic objective, though. Another option would be to maintain the status quo on the West London line and to continue Orbirail on from Willesden Junction to South Acton, thence via South Acton Junction and Kew Junctions to join the Brentford loop, running through Barnes and Putney to Clapham Junction and on via Wandsworth Road, creating a true orbital service. Gunnersbury to Richmond could then be turned over entirely to District Line operation. |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
Jack Taylor wrote:
Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article , (Tom Anderson) wrote: There is another option - if trains didn't visit Clapham Junction at all, they could go from Imperial Wharf to Wandsworth Road directly, without reversing. I don't have a track map to hand, but ISTR that this can be done without conflicting movements across other tracks. Misses out a rather important traffic objective, though. Another option would be to maintain the status quo on the West London line and to continue Orbirail on from Willesden Junction to South Acton, thence via South Acton Junction and Kew Junctions to join the Brentford loop, running through Barnes and Putney to Clapham Junction and on via Wandsworth Road, creating a true orbital service. Gunnersbury to Richmond could then be turned over entirely to District Line operation. So how would a passenger get from Brondesbury Park to Kew Gardens? The other option is to turn Clapham Junction into a local station and build a replacement interchange at Queenstown Road station, which could also have platforms on the Victoria-Kent lines and on the Wandsworth Road - Olympia line. I think that would give a lot of curvy and possibly sloping platforms though. |
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Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
John Rowland wrote:
So how would a passenger get from Brondesbury Park to Kew Gardens? Tough! ;-) Go to Chiswick and walk. How would you currently get from Brondesbury Park to Chiswick? No pain, no gain. Sadly, for every improvement in functionality there is going to be some loss, whatever the solution. |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Jul 1, 3:08 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
It may be but my point is that circular services can run properly if you get non conflicting junctions and adequate signalling capacity. This is what Berlin has got on its S Bahn and the service runs fine. The LU proposals are an attempt to create reliability without the huge construction costs of removing conflicting junctions of which there are many on the Circle / District line. There are six that affect the Circle directly - Praed Street, Baker Street, Aldgate, Minories, Gloucester Road and HSK. Aldgate East also affects the Circle, but not as directly. |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Jul 1, 10:47 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
The Queen's Park - Stratford service ia a post-2012 development that requires extra stock on the Bakerloo Line, and assumes that the Clapham J. - Willesden J. service will run via an electrified GOBLIN to Barking. It doesn't - TfL's phasing ties the two together, but Network Rail recommend the Queen's Park service go ahead in isolation from the Bakerloo Line changes. Also, the Goblin-Clapham service is assumed to be diesel in the proposals. Your suggestion that all "they" care about is Camden Road - Stratford doesn't fit well with the efforts they are making to create an orbital rail service. It's not my suggestion: "The initial target will be the delivery of 8 trains per hour into Stratford from the west, firstly because it is on the section to the east of Camden Road that the greatest levels of overcrowding occur" http://www.tfl.gov.uk/businessandpar...ions/2860.aspx The suggested first phase service pattern may have 8 tph Camden - Willesden, but the final phase doesn't, because it's not important in the great scheme of things. U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 23:14:30 GMT, Jack Taylor wrote:
So how would a passenger get from Brondesbury Park to Kew Gardens? Tough! ;-) Go to Chiswick and walk. How would you currently get from Brondesbury Park to Chiswick? Although it may seem like just the replacement of one arbitrary set of journey opportunities with another, people organise their lives (e.g. locations of home/work) around the available transport services, and it isn't entirely fair to just pull the rug out from under them. |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 16:45:31 -0700, Mr Thant wrote:
The Queen's Park - Stratford service ia a post-2012 development that requires extra stock on the Bakerloo Line, and assumes that the Clapham J. - Willesden J. service will run via an electrified GOBLIN to Barking. It doesn't - TfL's phasing ties the two together, but Network Rail recommend the Queen's Park service go ahead in isolation from the Bakerloo Line changes. Although ISTR (from the Cross-London RUS?) that in that case the trains couldn't reliably be reversed at Queen's Park amongst the northbound Euston DC services (which would use the same platform), so they'd have to run through to Willesden Junction and reverse in the bay platform there instead. This would have a consequent negative impact on Bakerloo performance. |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
In message . com,
brixtonite writes I would expect the SLL service from London Victoria to be replaced by the ELL service to clapham junction. I think the Victoria - Denmark Hill - Lewisham service does share tracks with this in one direction through Denmark Hill, but it needn't. Wouldn't that leave Wandsworth Road and Clapham High Street without any service to Central London? As I recall, there are no platforms on the "Chatham" pair of tracks, only on the SLL pair. -- Paul Terry |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
asdf wrote:
Although it may seem like just the replacement of one arbitrary set of journey opportunities with another, people organise their lives (e.g. locations of home/work) around the available transport services, and it isn't entirely fair to just pull the rug out from under them. One could argue exactly the same point about the reorganisation of Circle/H&C services, for example. I was simply providing a *suggestion* as to how a non-reversing Orbirail service could be provided using the existing infrastructure - hence the ;-) emoticon. |
Claphan Junction Disused platform 1
On Jul 2, 9:57 am, Paul Terry wrote:
In message . com, brixtonite writes I would expect the SLL service from London Victoria to be replaced by the ELL service to clapham junction. I think the Victoria - Denmark Hill - Lewisham service does share tracks with this in one direction through Denmark Hill, but it needn't. Wouldn't that leave Wandsworth Road and Clapham High Street without any service to Central London? As I recall, there are no platforms on the "Chatham" pair of tracks, only on the SLL pair. -- Paul Terry That's true. At the moment, Victoria to Lewisham services usually cross to the SLL side between Wandsworth Road and Clapham High Street, and then cross back again between Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye. In the other direction they usually cross to the SLL after Peckham Rye and then it's about 50 : 50 whether they stay on that side through Wandsworth Road and go the wiggly way, or cross to the "Chatham" tracks after Clapham High Street and follow the main viaduct. So you could maintain a service from Clapham High Street to Victoria by putting stops in the Lewisham Services, but Wandsworth Road would be left out, at least in one direction. I don't understand the need for all the crossing, but maybe it's to avoid the trains that feed into the "Chatham" tracks at Brixton. |
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