In message . com, at
09:20:16 on Fri, 3 Aug 2007, W14_Fishbourne
remarked:
Of course, the most practical solution might be to have a chip
embedded in your arm, as they do with many pets these days.

I haven't got a pet embedded in my arm, but since yesterday there's some
sort of mosquito bite which is quite painful. Not recommended
--
Roland Perry

On 3 Aug, 17:20, W14_Fishbourne wrote:
Of course, the most practical solution might be to have a chip
embedded in your arm, as they do with many pets these days. Then, not
only is there no chance of you losing your ticket or leaving it at
home, but you also cannot fraudulently transfer it to anyone else.
Furthermore, if you ever got lost and insensible, they would know
where to return you. It could also be updated while you were having a
bath by passing the signal down the water pipe.

Sign me up.

One would hope that your serial number would be linked to the
government's national ID database (run by Capita perhaps), where
information would be shared with the US Dept. of Homeland Security as
well as Europol, for the purposes of combating terrorism, school
truancy and intoxicated high-jinx. After all, if you've got nothing to
hide...

"I am not a free man, I am a number"

In message .com, at
09:28:10 on Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Mizter T remarked:
I'm also a sceptic (see my other posts on this thread) but there is a
whole new wave (excuse the pun) of micro-payments on the way... the
Barclaycard OnePulse card, to be launched this september in London,
will include wave-and-pay RFID technology for purchases under £10, as
well as Oyster card capability (the balance held in the virtual Oyster
purse will be separate from the wave-and-pay system).

Incidentally wave-and-pay would appear to be the generic term -
Visa calls it "Visa payWave":
(http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/paywave/index.html)
and Barclays appear to call the technology "OneTouch".

The ThriftyScot article (first link below) says that the Royal Bank of
Scotland (owners of NatWest) and American Express plan cards using
this technology.

I do see a troublesome few years ahead. Having finally got out of the
woods with every store trying to thrust loyalty cards at you (I'm sure
the schemes still exist, but most seem to have stopped actively
recruiting new shoppers), we'll soon have a wallet full of one-purpose
rfid cards.

They are converting the Amsterdam public transport to some sort of
Oyster-like system quite soon now. So less moaning about the problems of
finding a ticket machine there that'll take credit cards, but it's one
more bit of dedicated plastic to carry everywhere (and to add to the
Brussels metro carnet card, the Oyster, my Nottingham City transport bus
pass, at least one door key, and who knows what else). And not just
that, but each of those (apart from the door key) has its own billing
system, or its own bit of prepay cash sitting in limbo.

They say all the ATOC cards [or is it phones] are going to be compatible
with each other, but I wouldn't take bets on it.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 16:43:11 on Fri, 3 Aug
2007, tim..... remarked:
Does this mean you have to buy a new phone,

Almost certainly, Yes

The average age of phones in our household is about three years (and we
don't have any plans to buy more than one new one a year, if that, between
the four of us). Another problem is that there'll only be a very limited
range of phones with the new gadget in to start with, so if you've chosen
one because of some other set of features you wanted [1] you could well
still not get an rfid.

Adding new bits to a mobile buggers up the standby time.
And as longer standby time is the holy grail that the
networks keep demanding the extra bits don't happen
until everyone is sure that there is a need.

E.g. 10 years ago I worked for a Cambridge company whos
MD had just patented a way of integrating GPS into a phone
(you may know him?). Everyone thought that this was
going to be rolled out in a couple, of years - they are still
waiting.

tim

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message .com, at
09:28:10 on Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Mizter T remarked:
I'm also a sceptic (see my other posts on this thread) but there is a
whole new wave (excuse the pun) of micro-payments on the way... the
Barclaycard OnePulse card, to be launched this september in London,
will include wave-and-pay RFID technology for purchases under £10, as
well as Oyster card capability (the balance held in the virtual Oyster
purse will be separate from the wave-and-pay system).

Incidentally wave-and-pay would appear to be the generic term -
Visa calls it "Visa payWave":
(http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/paywave/index.html)
and Barclays appear to call the technology "OneTouch".

The ThriftyScot article (first link below) says that the Royal Bank of
Scotland (owners of NatWest) and American Express plan cards using
this technology.

I do see a troublesome few years ahead. Having finally got out of the
woods with every store trying to thrust loyalty cards at you (I'm sure the
schemes still exist, but most seem to have stopped actively recruiting new
shoppers), we'll soon have a wallet full of one-purpose rfid cards.

They are converting the Amsterdam public transport to some sort of
Oyster-like system quite soon now. So less moaning about the problems of
finding a ticket machine there that'll take credit cards, but it's one
more bit of dedicated plastic to carry everywhere (and to add to the
Brussels metro carnet card, the Oyster, my Nottingham City transport bus
pass, at least one door key, and who knows what else). And not just that,
but each of those (apart from the door key) has its own billing system, or
its own bit of prepay cash sitting in limbo.

When I was in Portugal, I noticed that the small town of
Faro had Stored Value Cards for their buses.


They say all the ATOC cards [or is it phones] are going to be compatible
with each other, but I wouldn't take bets on it.

Being technically compatible and using the same stored
value may not be the same thing :-(

tim

On Aug 3, 7:59 pm, "tim....." wrote:


Being technically compatible and using the same stored
value may not be the same thing :-(

tim


For example, unless Transport for London wants to become a bank, with
all the regulatory implications of that, Oyster Pay As You Go will
never become available for use outside of London.

wrote:
On 3 Aug, 08:59, Bob wrote:
http://www.silicon.com/publicsector/...9168037,00.htm

Of course this will mean the need for cyber gripping.

Why oh why is it assumed that everyone has a mobile ? And what happens
with a mobile ticket if your battery goes flat ?

It's not much different to expecting people not to leave their wallet at
home, is it?

In message , at 19:47:45 on Fri, 3
Aug 2007, tim..... remarked:

Adding new bits to a mobile buggers up the standby time.
And as longer standby time is the holy grail that the
networks keep demanding the extra bits don't happen
until everyone is sure that there is a need.

E.g. 10 years ago I worked for a Cambridge company whos
MD had just patented a way of integrating GPS into a phone
(you may know him?).

It doesn't ring any bells I'm afraid.

Everyone thought that this was going to be rolled out in a couple, of
years - they are still waiting.

And I've even seen people claiming they were going to become
universal/mandatory.

What I think might be handy is something about the same size as the very
latest slimline phones, and which includes a chip which can mimic all
the different rfid smartcards (a bit like a universal TV remote), and
give a display of recent transactions or whatever. I'd pay twenty quid
for something like that.

Heh, no-one can patent that now...
--
Roland Perry

"tim....." wrote in message
...


Adding new bits to a mobile buggers up the standby time.
And as longer standby time is the holy grail that the
networks keep demanding the extra bits don't happen
until everyone is sure that there is a need.


Er (apart from space taken up) why would a separate but embedded rfid device
cause power problems? There doesn't seem to be much of a problem with the
standby time of an Oyster card... If the mobile is able to interrogate its
chip to check balance or history I would have thought consumption would be
trivial compared with most other important functions like ringing, calling,
texting etc...

Seriously though, what size is the actual device embedded in the card?
Perhaps a way of mounting it on say a watch strap, or bracelet or some such
might catch on...

Paul

In message , at 19:59:37 on Fri, 3
Aug 2007, tim..... remarked:
They say all the ATOC cards [or is it phones] are going to be compatible
with each other, but I wouldn't take bets on it.

Being technically compatible and using the same stored
value may not be the same thing :-(

That's a whole new can of worms, but are you suggesting one smartcard
could have the stored value from dozens of different TOCs upon it (and
debit the right one at various stages in a journey) rather than have one
set of "bank of ATOC" money on it?
--
Roland Perry