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Old August 10th 07, 05:12 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Extend the ELL to Alexandra Palace?

A suggestion from Jim Blake elow. Is it feasible?

http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/content/cam...2%3A52%3A78 0

Abandoned railway plan could be revived for Parkland Walk

09 August 2007
I WAS interested to read Ernie Nice's letter relating to the former
railway line between Alexandra Palace, Highgate and Finsbury Park. It
is indeed ridiculous that no-one in authority has taken seriously
proposals to revive this line in an effort to alleviate the appalling
traffic congestion - and poor public transport availability - in such
places as Muswell Hill and Crouch End.

What makes this perhaps the greatest blot on the history of London
Transport is the fact that the line should have become part of the
Northern Line in 1940, having originally been one of the Great
Northern Railway's suburban branches from King's Cross. Later
inherited by the London & North Eastern Railway, it was to become part
of an expanded Northern Line under London Transport's 1935-1940 New
Works Programme.

The Northern Line was extended in a new tunnel from its previous
Archway terminus, via a new tube station beneath the existing Highgate
station on the Finsbury Park to Alexandra Palace line, to East
Finchley in July 1939. Here it joined the branch from Finsbury Park,
which divided at Highgate - one section going via Muswell Hill to
Alexandra Palace, the other continuing to East Finchley and then on to
Finchley Central (originally called Church End) and High Barnet.

The branch to High Barnet from East Finchley was added to the Northern
Line in April 1940. A second branch that went to Edgware via Mill Hill
from Finchley Central (Church End) should also have been part of the
Northern Line, and was extended as far as Mill Hill East in May 1941
to serve the army barracks there.

Sadly, the rest of the scheme, that is the line from Finsbury Park to
Highgate and Alexandra Palace, which was also to have been connected
to the isolated Moorgate to Finsbury Park tube line (known as the
Northern City Line and eventually taken over by British Railways Great
Northern electric services in 1976), and the section from Mill Hill
East to Edgware, along with a new extension further out to Bushey
Heath, was held "in abeyance" during the war.

Although London Transport fully intended to complete the project (even
announcing completion dates for 1948/49), all uncompleted sections
were abandoned in the early 1950s - the line to Alexandra Palace still
being served by antiquated steam trains until finally closed in July
1954.

What makes all this particularly absurd is that so much had already
been carried out before the war forced it to be suspended. Over three
million pounds' worth of work - at 1939 values - had been done on the
uncompleted sections, and that from Finsbury Park to Alexandra Palace
was virtually complete.

For instance, connecting ramps had been built to link the Northern
City tube line at Drayton Park with the LNER line into a new high-
level station at Finsbury Park. Much of the structure of the two new
platforms and facade in Station Place had been erected - its rusting
steel girders remaining as an eyesore until demolished in 1973. Most
of the conductor rails and lineside cabling had been installed
throughout the branch to permit electric running - indeed sub-stations
to supply the current were built and fully equipped at Crouch Hill and
Muswell Hill.

Most important of all, the existing Highgate station was completely
rebuilt in modern London Transport style, with new platform buildings
between the tunnels beside Archway Road, and a new booking office
beneath them to serve the interconnecting tube platforms below (as it
still does). A brand new station at East Finchley was also built with
four platforms, the two outer ones for tube trains running from High
Barnet or Edgware (via Mill Hill) to Central London and onwards to
Morden, the two inner ones for trains from High Barnet to Moorgate via
the line through Highgate and Finsbury Park.

Today, of course, these platforms are used only for training, running
to or from the Northern Line's Highgate Depot, which is situated where
the branch from Finsbury Park divided to go to Alexandra Palace or on
to East Finchley and Highgate Barnet.

Ironically the new platform buildings at Highgate - built for tube
trains but never served by them - remain intact today and could easily
be brought back into use.

Whether as a light rail system (as suggested by the Muswell Hill Metro
Group) or as something more ambitious - for instance an extension of
Ken Livingstone's Overground network that could be connected via
Canonbury tunnel with the North and East London lines, obviously the
so-called Parkland Walk (which more resembled a dogs' toilet and a
wilderness of stinging nettles when I last visited it a few months
ago!) should be used to restore this vital railway link, which also
could easily co-exist with a footpath and much of the present wildlife
habitat.

JIM BLAKE

Hon Chairman, North London Transport Society


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Old August 10th 07, 05:50 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Extend the ELL to Alexandra Palace?

On Aug 10, 6:12 pm, Bob wrote:
A suggestion from Jim Blake elow. Is it feasible?


As with the plans to run the ELL to Finsbury Park, it requires an
impossible-to-build flying junction with the NLL to be operationally
viable, then additionally an expensive bridge and ramps through
Finsbury Park and over the ECML, plus I'm not sure what you do at
Finsbury Park station, either.

Something on the Parkland Walk itself would be easy to build, but
wouldn't serve much purpose unless you could think of a larger scheme
to hook it into, which the ELL isn't.

U

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Old August 11th 07, 01:44 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Extend the ELL to Alexandra Palace?

Bob wrote:
Abandoned railway plan could be revived for Parkland Walk

09 August 2007


Here we go again. Every time someone writes about this they act as if no
one has thought of it before and/or it hasn't been discussed to death a
million times over since the line closed. Some proposals have been taken
seriously but they have failed to get anywhere for legitimate, practical
reasons, AFAICT.

Jim Blake wrote;
and poor public transport availability - in such
places as Muswell Hill and Crouch End.


Neither of those places can be said to be poorly served by public
transport as they have an ample supply of buses. No immediately local
tube or trains, true, but both can be reached by a walk or a short bus
journey. Some people even like the fact there's no tube!

so-called Parkland Walk (which more resembled a dogs' toilet and a
wilderness of stinging nettles when I last visited it a few months
ago!) should be used to restore this vital railway link, which also
could easily co-exist with a footpath and much of the present wildlife
habitat.


At this point in time, I would consider that wilderness of nettles to be
of more lasting benefit than any light rail project although this
opinion may change depending on what Haringey council do to it;

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/pwconsultation

ESB
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Old August 11th 07, 06:56 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Extend the ELL to Alexandra Palace?

Mr Thant wrote:
On Aug 10, 6:12 pm, Bob wrote:


Something on the Parkland Walk itself would be easy to build,


There's at least 2 schools on the line aren't there?


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Old August 11th 07, 07:44 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Extend the ELL to Alexandra Palace?

On Aug 11, 7:56 pm, Stuart wrote:
There's at least 2 schools on the line aren't there?


The Parkland Walk proper from Finsbury Park to Highgate is clear. It's
the second bit frrom Highgate to Alexandra Palace that has the
obstructions.

U

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Old August 11th 07, 08:58 PM posted to uk.transport.london
MIG MIG is offline
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Default Extend the ELL to Alexandra Palace?

On Aug 11, 8:44 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Aug 11, 7:56 pm, Stuart wrote:

There's at least 2 schools on the line aren't there?


The Parkland Walk proper from Finsbury Park to Highgate is clear. It's
the second bit frrom Highgate to Alexandra Palace that has the
obstructions.



And I think it was still in use for movements between the City branch
and Highgate Depot till the early 1970s wasn't it? How did they get
across Finsbury Park at that time? (I realise that occasional stock
movements aren't equivalent to regular services, so I am not trying to
imply that there's an easy route, but there must be a route.)

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Old August 11th 07, 09:47 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Extend the ELL to Alexandra Palace?

On Aug 11, 9:58 pm, MIG wrote:
And I think it was still in use for movements between the City branch
and Highgate Depot till the early 1970s wasn't it? How did they get
across Finsbury Park at that time? (I realise that occasional stock
movements aren't equivalent to regular services, so I am not trying to
imply that there's an easy route, but there must be a route.)


The Northern City had a stock transfer connection with the ECML at
Drayton Park depot, and the Highgate line was built as a branch of the
ECML, with a flying junction that cut into the southwest corner of the
current extent of the park.

See the map and photos he
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...te/index.shtml

U

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Old August 12th 07, 09:41 AM posted to uk.transport.london
MIG MIG is offline
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Default Extend the ELL to Alexandra Palace?

On Aug 11, 10:47 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Aug 11, 9:58 pm, MIG wrote:

And I think it was still in use for movements between the City branch
and Highgate Depot till the early 1970s wasn't it? How did they get
across Finsbury Park at that time? (I realise that occasional stock
movements aren't equivalent to regular services, so I am not trying to
imply that there's an easy route, but there must be a route.)


The Northern City had a stock transfer connection with the ECML at
Drayton Park depot, and the Highgate line was built as a branch of the
ECML, with a flying junction that cut into the southwest corner of the
current extent of the park.



I am trying to picture where that would be. Somewhere near the
trainspotters platform?

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Old August 12th 07, 11:00 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Extend the ELL to Alexandra Palace?

On Aug 12, 10:41 am, MIG wrote:
I am trying to picture where that would be. Somewhere near the
trainspotters platform?


Sorry, I linked to the wrong page:
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...rk/index.shtml

The street map on that page shows the route of the viaduct through the
park.

The first two photos here show what the junction looked like from the
branch end, facing the park:
http://overground.doeth.net/heights/

The ECML runs left to right underneath the bridges. Northbound trains
arrive from the ramp on the right, directly from the main ECML
formation. Southbound trains turn left, crossing the whole main line,
then use the viaduct alongside the park to reach FP station.

The Northern Heights plan would have had both lines crossing over,
then extended the viaduct through Station Place (where the fancy new
canopy is today) to join the Northern City without using the ECML.

U

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A blog about transport projects in London



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