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Fares From January 2004
Apparently all fares are going up by 25% on the Tube.
And the 70p bus fare is going up to £1. I guess the £1 fare is going up to? Anyway 25%???? Just a tiny bit over the rate of inflation then? Anyway I think considering LU fares are a rip off already. 25% rise is just taking the ****. But then thankfully I won't be living in London by next year. So Im not all that bothered. I do feel sorry for commuters who to be honest do pay over the odds for a **** service. The thing is. LU provide a service like they do. Then charge these fares. And then can't understand why people are queuing up to bash them. -- CJG |
Fares From January 2004
Unless I'm very much mistaken, it was CJG
), in message who said: Apparently all fares are going up by 25% on the Tube. And the 70p bus fare is going up to £1. I guess the £1 fare is going up to? Anyway 25%???? Just a tiny bit over the rate of inflation then? Anyway I think considering LU fares are a rip off already. 25% rise is just taking the ****. But then thankfully I won't be living in London by next year. So Im not all that bothered. I do feel sorry for commuters who to be honest do pay over the odds for a **** service. The thing is. LU provide a service like they do. Then charge these fares. And then can't understand why people are queuing up to bash them. And still no low-cost transfer ticket on the buses, no? Absolutely ****ing disgraceful. Personally I don't mind so much if TfL are trying to engineer a situation whereby a travelcard or buspass of some description become the minimum economically viable ticket - which certainly appears to be the case. However, why can't they sell the ****ers at bus stops or on buses, for those of us who need to make an initial bus journey in order to be able to buy a travelcard in the first place? BTN |
Fares From January 2004
CJG wrote:
Apparently all fares are going up by 25% on the Tube. WRONG! It helps if you read beyond the Evening Standard headline. The real story is at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-744.shtml Full details of new fares are at http://www.london.gov.uk/news/2003/fare-struc04.pdf -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Fares From January 2004
Stevie wrote:
CJG wrote: Apparently all fares are going up by 25% on the Tube. And the 70p bus fare is going up to £1. I guess the £1 fare is going up to? Anyway 25%???? Just a tiny bit over the rate of inflation then? Anyway I think considering LU fares are a rip off already. 25% rise is just taking the ****. But then thankfully I won't be living in London by next year. So Im not all that bothered. I do feel sorry for commuters who to be honest do pay over the odds for a **** service. The thing is. LU provide a service like they do. Then charge these fares. And then can't understand why people are queuing up to bash them. However, apparently this increases are only for people buying tickets with cash. If you use Oystercard prepay then the prices are staying the same - it's all part of some grand plan to get everyone using Oystercard. The 25% increase is only for people buying single or return tube tickets for Zone 1 only. Other cash fares have much more modest increases, in most cases going up by 10p or 20p for single or 1-day fares. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Fares From January 2004
In message , Stevie
writes However, apparently this increases are only for people buying tickets with cash. If you use Oystercard prepay then the prices are staying the same - it's all part of some grand plan to get everyone using Oystercard. We aren't putting up the fares really! Just encouraging people to use Oyster. Just remember Ken and LU think we are all stupid. Its the old shouting about getting 10% more beer free then quietly putting the price up 20% -- CJG |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:49:18 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote: WRONG! It helps if you read beyond the Evening Standard headline. The real story is at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-744.shtml Flat fare of a quid for bus journeys everywhere isn't *too* bad - it'll allow all buses to go to off-bus ticketing sooner, though it'll not give much scope for further increases without involving loose change. I *do* disagree with the free travel for children idea, though - I can see it leading to troublemakers *legitimately* riding around on buses for free all day harassing the passengers. 40p is not an unreasonable child fare, IMO. As for gbp2 single on the Tube zone 1, it's a complete rip-off, blatently targeted at visitors and tourists. The fare should be *reduced* to a quid, and made inter-available with buses to encourage the two to be used as a system rather than two distinct means of transport. It's odd, as someone originating from the North West who now lives in Milton Keynes and visits London a lot (normally with a Travelcard), to see that bus and Tube/rail fares in the London area are opposite to those in the Northern PTEs - there, bus fares are set at commercial rates and so are high, while rail fares are heavily-subsidised and rather cheap in comparison, while in London the opposite is the case... Neil |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:35:35 +0100 Stevie said...
However, apparently this increases are only for people buying tickets with cash. If you use Oystercard prepay then the prices are staying the same - it's all part of some grand plan to get everyone using Oystercard. Having looked at the new fares, yes, Oyster smartcard makes sense for single journeys on both the buses & tube. However there is still no financial benefit to those who want to use it for weekly and longer Travelcards or bus passes. Whilst a majority of the Travelcard increases are in the 3 to 4% region, I'm intrigued why Z1 only prices have shot up the way they have done. -- Phil Richards London, N4 |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:10:33 +0100, CJG
wrote: Apparently all fares are going up by 25% on the Tube. And the 70p bus fare is going up to £1. I guess the £1 fare is going up to? Anyway 25%???? Just a tiny bit over the rate of inflation then? Funny. Its only 65p with a Saver.... Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:30:02 +0100, "Ben Nunn"
wrote: However, why can't they sell the ****ers at bus stops or on buses, for those of us who need to make an initial bus journey in order to be able to buy a travelcard in the first place? Because then the bus would be held for much longer as more cash is handled by the driver. There's also the issue that the bus ticket machines don't issue mag-stripe tickets. Of course when Oyster PrePay is up and running, the problem won't be there any more.... Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
Fares From January 2004
However, apparently this increases are only for people buying tickets with cash. If you use Oystercard prepay then the prices are staying the same - it's all part of some grand plan to get everyone using Oystercard. Oystercard, because everyone likes to be tracked every journey they make, oh and so are cars now with the congestion charge *suspicious eyes* |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:21:52 GMT Neil Williams
said... Flat fare of a quid for bus journeys everywhere isn't *too* bad - it'll allow all buses to go to off-bus ticketing sooner, though it'll not give much scope for further increases without involving loose change. I think the idea is to educate the occasional bus user to use the Saver 6 or Oyster Smartcard. Interesting as hundreds of bus stops in Central London have had the new self service ticket machines installed in recent weeks, it looks like the whole system will be cash free by 2005/6. That's assuming TfL plan to put machines at each & every stop for those who still want to pay cash. I *do* disagree with the free travel for children idea, though - I can see it leading to troublemakers *legitimately* riding around on buses for free all day harassing the passengers. 40p is not an unreasonable child fare, IMO. Perhaps a better idea ought to be kids travelling with an adult travel go free, unaccompanied pay. Presumably there will still be the no child fares on Night Buses restriction as at present. I'm not sure if TfL have thought this one out properly and how they go about enforcing which kid is 11 or under. As for gbp2 single on the Tube zone 1, it's a complete rip-off, blatently targeted at visitors and tourists. I wouldn't say the increase targeted at visitors & tourists as many would tend to opt for Travelcards, the ODTC for Zones 1 & 2 for example is going up only by 10p for example. The biggest hike has got to be for those that regularly Travel in Z1 only especially the Weekly Travelcard & Carnets. I think the biggest outcry will come from those that live & work or whatever in Z1. inter-available with buses to encourage the two to be used as a system rather than two distinct means of transport. I think it's safe to say single tickets involving bus to bus or tube to bus (or v.v.) transfers are out of the question in London. A pity as so many other cities in Europe manage this perfectly well. It's odd, as someone originating from the North West who now lives in Milton Keynes and visits London a lot (normally with a Travelcard), to see that bus and Tube/rail fares in the London area are opposite to those in the Northern PTEs - there, bus fares are set at commercial rates and so are high, while rail fares are heavily-subsidised and rather cheap in comparison, while in London the opposite is the case... For the last few years Ken has tried to get more passengers on the buses and to give the man credit he has done a good job there. The last few fare changes have seen prices dropped, Night bus fares levelled with day time ones etc. etc. And consequently he has got more buses out on the roads too which is quite the opposite to the tube as capacity can't be really increased any more than it is at present. What I would like to see as the next step in London's fares is for the TOCs pricing structure to fall fully in line with the Travelcard zonal system. Effectively one fare, one ticket say from any station in Zone 1 to say any station Zone 6 be it Tube or National Rail. -- Phil Richards London, N4 |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:48:55 +0100 Robert Woolley
said... Funny. Its only 65p with a Saver.... 70p from 4 January 2004, presumably the pack of 6 will rise to £4.20 from £3.90. So my question is as the present Saver 6s don't have a "use by" date, you could theoretically buy loads at the old rate and still use them after the bus fares go up.... -- Phil Richards London, N4 |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:26:59 +0100 Robin Mayes
said... I'm intrigued why Z1 only prices have shot up the way they have done. Because the system within Zone 1 is creaking at the seams? Exactly, but as I pointed out in another message it's those that begin & finish their journey in Z1 that are getting hit the hardest. Those that commute in from the rest of London are faced with much smaller percentage increases so it doesn't really make sense. Perhaps the idea is to encourage those travelling within Z1 to use the buses and keep more space the tube for those coming in from further out. -- Phil Richards London, N4 |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:49:25 +0100, Phil Richards
wrote: On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:48:55 +0100 Robert Woolley said... Funny. Its only 65p with a Saver.... 70p from 4 January 2004, presumably the pack of 6 will rise to £4.20 from £3.90. So my question is as the present Saver 6s don't have a "use by" date, you could theoretically buy loads at the old rate and still use them after the bus fares go up.... Looks like it. Same principle as books of stamps with 1st and 2nd on them.... Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:21:52 GMT Neil Williams wrote:
} } As for gbp2 single on the Tube zone 1, it's a complete rip-off, } blatently targeted at visitors and tourists. The fare should be } *reduced* to a quid, and made inter-available with buses to encourage } the two to be used as a system rather than two distinct means of } transport. Ken said he would if he could but he can't so he won't. At least unless the government par for it. Not trying to pressure the treasury, no. Matthew -- Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho. http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/ |
Fares From January 2004
In message , Phil Richards
writes In that case why not pop in to your local friendly pass agent to buy your Travelcard before making your initial bus journey? This is a good point. My office is on an estate far away from a town or newsagents. So if I want to go out in the evening. I have to pay 70p to get the bus to the nearest tube station. And then buy an all zone travel card. Is it possible to buy off-peak day travel cards before 9am that you can only use after 9am? I bet not. If I was to present my newly machine brought unused all zone day travel card and my recently used bus ticket would I get my 70p back? I bet not. And how is Oyster going to help? Im still going to lose 70p credit when I use the bus and then £5.10 when I buy my travel card 30mins later. So Im not better off. -- CJG |
Fares From January 2004
In article ,
CJG wrote: Is it possible to buy off-peak day travel cards before 9am that you can only use after 9am? I bet not. I think so, from pass agents & ticket offices at least. |
Fares From January 2004
In message , CJG
writes Is it possible to buy off-peak day travel cards before 9am that you can only use after 9am? I bet not. Of course you can - you can even buy them the day before if you want, which is what I usually do. But they are valid from 9:30, not 9:00. -- Paul Terry |
Fares From January 2004
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:04:50 +0100 CJG
said... And how is Oyster going to help? Im still going to lose 70p credit when I use the bus and then £5.10 when I buy my travel card 30mins later. So Im not better off. In this case as I understand it Oystercard won't help. You'll be able to load it with credit for single bus/tube journeys or weekly & longer Travelcards. However the facility to pre-purchase a One Day Travel Card (Peak or Off Peak) or One Day Bus Pass won't be available. -- Phil Richards London, N4 |
Fares From January 2004
"CJG" wrote in message ... In message , Phil Richards writes In that case why not pop in to your local friendly pass agent to buy your Travelcard before making your initial bus journey? This is a good point. My office is on an estate far away from a town or newsagents. Blimey! You need to get a better job, mate! Alan |
Fares From January 2004
"Phil Richards" wrote in message ... On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:21:52 GMT Neil Williams said... (snips) As for gbp2 single on the Tube zone 1, it's a complete rip-off, blatently targeted at visitors and tourists. I wouldn't say the increase targeted at visitors & tourists as many would tend to opt for Travelcards, the ODTC for Zones 1 & 2 for example is going up only by 10p for example. The biggest hike has got to be for those that regularly Travel in Z1 only especially the Weekly Travelcard & Carnets. I think the biggest outcry will come from those that live & work or whatever in Z1. Looking at the prices, a pre-pay Z1 single is £1.60 - but the Carnet is £1.50 and the normal weekday single is £2.00! So does that mean it's cheaper to buy a paper-based Carnet than use Oyster, or will you be able to load a £1.50 Carnet onto an Oystercard? I also thought that the system would just charge you for a Travelcard if the cost of your journeys that day exceeded £4.20 (new Z12 price) - so if I make two tube journeys and two bus journeys all in Z1, I get charged for a Travelcard and not two Carnet tickets and two Saver tickets. But some people seem to be saying this will not be the case because the system will not handle Travelcards? My personal reaction to the new fares as an occasional traveller on both bus and tube mainly in Z1 is that I will probably use the buses a lot more and the tube less in 2004 as compared to last year. (Although it might pay to buy a few Carnets before January!) I'm also hoping the prepay Oystercard will work well for me. I'm quite interested by the weekend pre-pay prices (flat fare of £1.80 for any journey passing through Z1). Previously, when making any journey to the outer zones it would be cheaper to get a travelcard than two single tickets - but now that's not the case. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 |
Fares From January 2004
Stevie wrote in message m...
However, apparently this increases are only for people buying tickets with cash. If you use Oystercard prepay then the prices are staying the same - it's all part of some grand plan to get everyone using Oystercard. Presumably this confirms that Oyster pre-pay will be available by the time the new fares come in, otherwise we will all be paying the increase. I look forward to pre-pay being available, but I presume you will always have to have at least enough credit on your card for the most expensive tube-fare since the system will not know where you are going until you get off – (someone please explain if I’m wrong, I often am!). I think I would prefer a ‘post-pay’ system, a much better customer-service. Given their huge financial turnover I can’t see any reason why TfL shouldn’t set up Oyster credit accounts (just like your gas bill or credit card) and send out monthly bills for your travel. Non-payment needn’t be much of a problem if they made it direct-debit only. |
Fares From January 2004
Stevie wrote in message m...
However, apparently this increases are only for people buying tickets with cash. If you use Oystercard prepay then the prices are staying the same - it's all part of some grand plan to get everyone using Oystercard. Presumably this means Oyster daily pre-pay will be fully available by the time the new fares come in, otherwise we will all be paying the increase. I look forward to pre-pay being available, but I presume you will always have to have at least enough credit on your card for the most expensive tube-fare since the system will not know where you are going until you get off (someone please explain if I'm wrong, I often am!). I think I would prefer a 'post-pay' system, a much better customer-service. Given their huge financial turnover I can't see any reason why TfL shouldn't set up Oyster credit accounts (just like your gas bill or credit card) and send out monthly bills for your travel. Non-payment needn't be much of a problem if they made it direct-debit only. (re-posted to make it readable!) |
Fares From January 2004
Unless I'm very much mistaken, it was Phil Richards
), in message who said: The biggest hike has got to be for those that regularly Travel in Z1 only especially the Weekly Travelcard & Carnets. I think the biggest outcry will come from those that live & work or whatever in Z1. If I was lucky enough to live and work in Z1 - saving massively on time and travel costs compared to any arrangement I've ever had at any point in my life - I wouldn't complain about this increase. BTN |
Fares From January 2004
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:25:16 +0100 Dave Arquati wrote:
} } My personal reaction to the new fares as an occasional traveller on both bus } and tube mainly in Z1 is that I will probably use the buses a lot more and } the tube less in 2004 as compared to last year. That may be the intent behind the fare changes as while the Underground is essentially at capacity a lot of money has been spent providing new bus services and more busses on existing routes which remain underutilised. Matthew -- Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho. http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/ |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:35:35 +0100, Stevie wrote:
CJG wrote: Apparently all fares are going up by 25% on the Tube. And the 70p bus fare is going up to £1. I guess the £1 fare is going up to? [snip] However, apparently this increases are only for people buying tickets with cash. If you use Oystercard prepay then the prices are staying the same - it's all part of some grand plan to get everyone using Oystercard. No, it's a grand plan to remove cash fares from buses. Cheers, Jason. |
Fares From January 2004
"Phil Richards" wrote in message
... hundreds of bus stops in Central London have had the new self service ticket machines installed in recent weeks, it looks like the whole system will be cash free by 2005/6. That's assuming TfL plan to put machines at each & every stop for those who still want to pay cash. What about Hail & Ride buses? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:10:33 +0100, CJG
wrote: Apparently all fares are going up by 25% on the Tube. No they aren't. I suggest you read and fully digest the TfL press announcement and associated document with all of the fare levels listed in it. And the 70p bus fare is going up to £1. I guess the £1 fare is going up to? Only if you pay cash. 70p is ridiculously cheap for bus travel compared to commercial rates in the remainder of the country. Anyway 25%???? Just a tiny bit over the rate of inflation then? Not all fares are going up by 25%. Anyway I think considering LU fares are a rip off already. 25% rise is just taking the ****. But then thankfully I won't be living in London by next year. So Im not all that bothered. Lucky Yorkshire or wherever it is you are moving to. Tell us when you're leaving - I'm sure we'll come to wave you off. I do feel sorry for commuters who to be honest do pay over the odds for a **** service. That's nice. The thing is. LU provide a service like they do. Then charge these fares. And then can't understand why people are queuing up to bash them. Here you go again - trying to justify assaults on LUL staff. Have you tried an anger management course? -- Paul C |
Fares From January 2004
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... Here you go again - trying to justify assaults on LUL staff. Have you tried an anger management course? He did, but ended up hitting the tutor! ;-) |
Fares From January 2004
|
Fares From January 2004
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:38:51 +0100 John Rowland
said... What about Hail & Ride buses? Possibly convert the busier ones to fixed stop routes or even install ticket machines on the buses themselves? -- Phil Richards London, N4 |
Fares From January 2004
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:25:16 +0100 Dave Arquati said...
I also thought that the system would just charge you for a Travelcard if the cost of your journeys that day exceeded £4.20 (new Z12 price) - so if I make two tube journeys and two bus journeys all in Z1, I get charged for a Travelcard and not two Carnet tickets and two Saver tickets. But some people seem to be saying this will not be the case because the system will not handle Travelcards? The Oystercard web site doesn't give much detail about daily tickets, all it says is: "All tickets valid for less than 7 days, will continue to be available on paper. Later we'll be launching an exciting new pay-as-you-go product exclusive to Oyster called Pre Pay. This will be ideal for those of you who travel regularly but do not buy a season ticket. We'll be telling you a great deal more about this soon." -- Phil Richards London, N4 |
Fares From January 2004
In message , Paul Corfield
writes fares. And then can't understand why people are queuing up to bash them. Here you go again - trying to justify assaults on LUL staff. Have you tried an anger management course? No it didn't work. I beat up the course instructor. Im very sorry. Obviously I thought you would all think when I said bash them. I meant in criticise them. Not actually physically bash them. Im very sorry for not making myself clear and causing the confusion that I was justifying attacking London Underground staff. Just to make myself aboustely clear for those people who don't understand. I was suggesting that London Underground shouldn't be surprised when people criticise them after charging high fares for a crap service. -- CJG |
Fares From January 2004
Phil Richards wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:30:02 +0100 Ben Nunn said... However, why can't they sell the ****ers at bus stops or on buses, for those of us who need to make an initial bus journey in order to be able to buy a travelcard in the first place? In that case why not pop in to your local friendly pass agent to buy your Travelcard before making your initial bus journey? Because it's considerably further away than my local friendly bus stop. Colin McKenzie |
Fares From January 2004
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:23:40 +0100, CJG
wrote: We aren't putting up the fares really! Just encouraging people to use Oyster. Encouraging? From http://www.oystercard.com/sub_get_tickets.php "Currently, Oyster is available only for adult customers who need to renew Annual and Monthly Travelcards or Annual Bus Passes." Doesn't cover 100% of ticket sales does it? And from the site no date when "daily tickets" will be available.... tho I bet the daily tickets don't come in before the price rise. I'd gladly except the oystercard (as someone who travels in the evening from zone 6 a few times a week)...there are advantages... not having to wait 15+ minutes to get a ticket at the booking office, and ticket machines which are either bust, not accepting some coins... et al. Tho a few questions (which I can't find answers too); - Will the "travel card" contune to exist? Or will payment be on a per journey basis? - Whats the lifetime/units of credit? For example paying in advance does it mean being extempt from price increases? Just remember Ken and LU think we are all stupid. We are not... A final question tho! Why did the "handover" only occur recently (as I understand it), and not when Ken came to power? Since it's only a short while until the election... is this a political thing? It shouldn't be... but I get the feeling it maybe? |
Fares From January 2004
John Rowland wrote:
What about Hail & Ride buses? Will probably disappear altogether, despite their popularity, for disability discrimination reasons. Colin McKenzie |
Fares From January 2004
"Mark Blewett" wrote in message
... I'd gladly except the oystercard (as someone who travels in the evening from zone 6 a few times a week)...there are advantages... not having to wait 15+ minutes to get a ticket at the booking office, and ticket machines which are either bust, not accepting some coins... et al. I was amazed that daily tickets on Oyster would be introduced last (if at all) - haven't LU realised that the ticket tout problem will disappear overnight when the ODTCs go on Oyster? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Fares From January 2004
Colin McKenzie wrote:
John Rowland wrote: What about Hail & Ride buses? Will probably disappear altogether, despite their popularity, for disability discrimination reasons. In what way are they discriminatory? One such route near me is very popular with elderly residents with limited walking ability because they don't have to walk so far. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Fares From January 2004
"Ben Nunn" wrote in news:bhvjdl$3lr8a$1@ID-
55895.news.uni-berlin.de: Unless I'm very much mistaken, it was Phil Richards ), in message who said: The biggest hike has got to be for those that regularly Travel in Z1 only especially the Weekly Travelcard & Carnets. I think the biggest outcry will come from those that live & work or whatever in Z1. If I was lucky enough to live and work in Z1 - saving massively on time and travel costs compared to any arrangement I've ever had at any point in my life - I wouldn't complain about this increase. Especially if you did complain people could just tell you to stop being a maytyr and just get an oystercard. |
Fares From January 2004
Mark Blewett wrote:
l question tho! Why did the "handover" only occur recently (as I understand it), and not when Ken came to power? Since it's only a short while until the election... is this a political thing? It shouldn't be... but I get the feeling it maybe? Of course it was. Blair and Brown wouldn't let it go until PPP was signed and sealed. -- James Farrar | London SE 13 | |
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