Yes, FCC (as it is now) has access rights to St Pancras station,
normally only used when the tunnels are shut.


FCC may have station rights but, i'm told, FCC drivers will not be
maintaining route knowledge into St.P so in a very short time all FCC
drivers will not be able to go in there. You do have to wonder where all the
trains will go when Moorgate is closed in 2008 and where they will go in the
meantime if anything closes central london. I know its not ideal but Kentish
Town is more than likely the answer as you can use Platforms 3 and 4 to
terminate in when there is through-london running and in the event of a
total london block you can use all four platforms to terminate in. This
would be more capacity than St. P as there is only 4 platforms to share with
MML who have amazingly long turn-around times.

"Nathan" wrote in message
om...

Yes, FCC (as it is now) has access rights to St Pancras station,
normally only used when the tunnels are shut.


FCC may have station rights but, i'm told, FCC drivers will not be
maintaining route knowledge into St.P so in a very short time all FCC
drivers will not be able to go in there. You do have to wonder where all
the trains will go when Moorgate is closed in 2008...

There are very regular closures of the Thameslink route from the new year
onwards, IIRC from FCC publicity, some trains will be reversing at St
Pancras International (formerly Midland Rd).

The plan is that by the time Moorgate closes, there will be capacity
available for trains to run through to destinations in the Southeastern
area, with their trains running through to at least Kentish Town in return,
as the bay platforms at Blackfriars close at the same time. Of course
capacity is not the same as frequency, and could be achieved with fewer
longer trains, using the units no longer going to Moorgate.

Paul

Paul Scott wrote:
There are very regular closures of the Thameslink route from the new year
onwards, IIRC from FCC publicity, some trains will be reversing at St
Pancras International (formerly Midland Rd).
There was something you missed. I passed through Luton this morning and
read a FCC poster that explicitly stated that during the closures you
mentioned a limited FCC service would operate to/from platforms 1-4 at
St Pancras - i.e. the Midland Main Line high-level platforms. The only
exception is the weekend before the New Year when Carlton Road Junction
will be renewed (about bloody time too!) - FCC trains will proceed no
further south than West Hampstead Thameslink.

Nathan wrote:
Yes, FCC (as it is now) has access rights to St Pancras station,
normally only used when the tunnels are shut.


FCC may have station rights but, i'm told, FCC drivers will not be
maintaining route knowledge into St.P so in a very short time all FCC
drivers will not be able to go in there. You do have to wonder where all the
trains will go when Moorgate is closed in 2008 and where they will go in the
meantime if anything closes central london. I know its not ideal but Kentish
Town is more than likely the answer as you can use Platforms 3 and 4 to
terminate in when there is through-london running and in the event of a
total london block you can use all four platforms to terminate in. This
would be more capacity than St. P as there is only 4 platforms to share with
MML who have amazingly long turn-around times.

Will the new St.P Thameslink station have the capacity to turn trains
round to/from the north? If this is so, presumably FCC believe this
will obviate the need to use St.P Midland.

Robin

In message , at 11:46:28 on Tue, 6
Nov 2007, R.C. Payne remarked:
Will the new St.P Thameslink station have the capacity to turn trains
round to/from the north?

It would extraordinarily remiss if it didn't.

If this is so, presumably FCC believe this will obviate the need to
use St.P Midland.

Indeed so. Or to have to do it at Kentish Town.
--
Roland Perry

"R.C. Payne" wrote in message
...
Nathan wrote:
Yes, FCC (as it is now) has access rights to St Pancras station,
normally only used when the tunnels are shut.


FCC may have station rights but, i'm told, FCC drivers will not be
maintaining route knowledge into St.P so in a very short time all FCC
drivers will not be able to go in there. You do have to wonder where all
the trains will go when Moorgate is closed in 2008 and where they will go
in the meantime if anything closes central london. I know its not ideal
but Kentish Town is more than likely the answer as you can use Platforms
3 and 4 to terminate in when there is through-london running and in the
event of a total london block you can use all four platforms to terminate
in. This would be more capacity than St. P as there is only 4 platforms
to share with MML who have amazingly long turn-around times.

Will the new St.P Thameslink station have the capacity to turn trains
round to/from the north? If this is so, presumably FCC believe this will
obviate the need to use St.P Midland.


As I posted earlier, it is plain from FCC's engineering works posters that
they do indeed have the capacity to turn trains at St Pancras International
(low level platforms).

Paul

As I posted earlier, it is plain from FCC's engineering works posters that
they do indeed have the capacity to turn trains at St Pancras
International (low level platforms).

I did have a chuckle at one piece of propaganda that said there have been 16
sets of points upgraded between Kentish Town and Kings Cross. Could anyone
name them all?

AFAIAA there will be no turnback facilities at St P. International LL (no
signals and no pointwork). Given that any future work or blocks will be
south of Kings Cross Thameslink station, I can only imagine that all
turnback trains will just travel empty to KX and then use the pointwork that
was originally used for trains terminating there from the south during the
original blockade of Kings Cross. I can see a split service of trains
terminating at Kentish Town and some terminating at St. Pancras

Nathan wrote:
I did have a chuckle at one piece of propaganda that said there have been 16
sets of points upgraded between Kentish Town and Kings Cross. Could anyone
name them all?

AFAIAA there will be no turnback facilities at St P. International LL (no
signals and no pointwork). Given that any future work or blocks will be
south of Kings Cross Thameslink station, I can only imagine that all
turnback trains will just travel empty to KX and then use the pointwork that
was originally used for trains terminating there from the south during the
original blockade of Kings Cross. I can see a split service of trains
terminating at Kentish Town and some terminating at St. Pancras
I saw a FCC engineering works poster at Luton, and it explicitly stated
the use of platforms 1-4 at St Pancras (i.e. the high-level platforms)
by FCC services during the closures. Whether or not they eventually
choose to use their own platforms during the closures instead remains to
be seen.

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:33:43 -0000, "Nathan" wrote:


Yes, FCC (as it is now) has access rights to St Pancras station,
normally only used when the tunnels are shut.


FCC may have station rights but, i'm told, FCC drivers will not be
maintaining route knowledge into St.P so in a very short time all FCC
drivers will not be able to go in there.

Do they have any route knowledge to maintain? As far as I know FCC
have never actually operated into the present St P MML station.

trains will go when Moorgate is closed in 2008 and where they will go in the
meantime if anything closes central london. I know its not ideal but Kentish
Town is more than likely the answer as you can use Platforms 3 and 4 to
terminate in when there is through-london running and in the event of a
total london block you can use all four platforms to terminate in. This
would be more capacity than St. P as there is only 4 platforms to share with
MML who have amazingly long turn-around times.



--
Peter Lawrence

On Nov 17, 5:59 pm, "Peter Lawrence" wrote:
Do they have any route knowledge to maintain? As far as I know FCC
have never actually operated into the present St P MML station.

During the blockade to create the station box for St Pancras Midland
City in 2004/2005, services from Bedford terminated at platforms at St
Pancras, not sure which platforms exactly, presumably the same as the
MML ones at the time (and which are to be re-used for CTRL-DS).

--
Abi