On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:29:38 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

IME, buses in central London are a complete waste of time.

Funny, that. In mine, they are the civilised and pleasant way to
travel in Central London, albeit a bit slower than the use of the
Tube.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:29:38 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

IME, buses in central London are a complete waste of time.

Funny, that. In mine, they are the civilised and pleasant way to
travel in Central London, albeit a bit slower than the use of the
Tube.

And not much slower for some journeys. The bus experience in London has
been transformed in recent years.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:12:09 -0000, "David A Stocks"
wrote:

I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

Is there a problem with District Line from Blackfriars to Mansion
House, then Northern Line, Bank to Angel?
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

On 14 Nov, 19:34, Terry Harper wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:12:09 -0000, "David A Stocks"

wrote:
I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

Is there a problem with District Line from Blackfriars to Mansion
House, then Northern Line, Bank to Angel?


No, not this weekend at least (i.e. no engineering works on either
line).

And yes, I see what you've done there - suggesting walking at street
level between Mansion House and Bank stations, rather than the long
subterranean walk between Monument and Bank stations.

A couple of principle issues with that:

(1) It's just one stopI The whole idea of a one stop Underground
journey, especially when the two stations are pretty close, just
grates with me - I inevitably think, why not just walk instead?! An
amendment would be to go two stops to Cannon Street and then walk up
Walbrook or St Swithin's Lane to Bank.

(2) There is not AFAIAA any out-of-station interchange between any of
these stations (Mansion House, Cannon Street or Bank/Monument) so you
would be charged for two separate journeys. Changing at Bank/Monument
is an 'in-station' interchange (as it's just one big station complex)
and hence you'd only be charged once for the whole journey (an Oyster
PAYG fare of £1.50).

Of course if a passenger was making several other journeys that day
things would be different, as they'd be likely to reach a daily price
cap and hence the cost of 'extra' journeys would be irrelevant.

On Nov 14, 9:32 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 14 Nov, 19:34, Terry Harper wrote:





On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:12:09 -0000, "David A Stocks"

wrote:
I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

Is there a problem with District Line from Blackfriars to Mansion
House, then Northern Line, Bank to Angel?

No, not this weekend at least (i.e. no engineering works on either
line).

And yes, I see what you've done there - suggesting walking at street
level between Mansion House and Bank stations, rather than the long
subterranean walk between Monument and Bank stations.

A couple of principle issues with that:

(1) It's just one stopI The whole idea of a one stop Underground
journey, especially when the two stations are pretty close, just
grates with me - I inevitably think, why not just walk instead?! An
amendment would be to go two stops to Cannon Street and then walk up
Walbrook or St Swithin's Lane to Bank.

Cannon Street is the nearest to Bank (so a shorter walk than from
Monument, street level or not), but it's not open on Sundays.

You have to go via Walbrook and Central Line even on Saturdays I
think, because they close the Northern Line entrance.



(2) There is not AFAIAA any out-of-station interchange between any of
these stations (Mansion House, Cannon Street or Bank/Monument) so you
would be charged for two separate journeys. Changing at Bank/Monument
is an 'in-station' interchange (as it's just one big station complex)
and hence you'd only be charged once for the whole journey (an Oyster
PAYG fare of £1.50).

Of course if a passenger was making several other journeys that day
things would be different, as they'd be likely to reach a daily price
cap and hence the cost of 'extra' journeys would be irrelevant.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

MIG wrote:

On Nov 14, 9:32 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 14 Nov, 19:34, Terry Harper wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:12:09 -0000, "David A Stocks"

wrote:
I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

Is there a problem with District Line from Blackfriars to Mansion
House, then Northern Line, Bank to Angel?

No, not this weekend at least (i.e. no engineering works on either
line).

And yes, I see what you've done there - suggesting walking at street
level between Mansion House and Bank stations, rather than the long
subterranean walk between Monument and Bank stations.

A couple of principle issues with that:

(1) It's just one stopI The whole idea of a one stop Underground
journey, especially when the two stations are pretty close, just
grates with me - I inevitably think, why not just walk instead?! An
amendment would be to go two stops to Cannon Street and then walk up
Walbrook or St Swithin's Lane to Bank.

Cannon Street is the nearest to Bank (so a shorter walk than from
Monument, street level or not), but it's not open on Sundays.

Sorry, my mistake. I had thought that Cannon Street's opening hours
had changed so it was open all weekend, but I got that quite wrong -
it's just saturdays and only until 1940, but it remains closed on
sundays.

The 2005 press release is he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/4106.aspx

Did Mansion House used to be closed on sundays as well, or am I making
that up?


You have to go via Walbrook and Central Line even on Saturdays I
think, because they close the Northern Line entrance.


Thanks. Despite that, it's still a very convenient interchange.

On Nov 15, 12:48 am, Mizter T wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Nov 14, 9:32 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 14 Nov, 19:34, Terry Harper wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:12:09 -0000, "David A Stocks"

wrote:
I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

Is there a problem with District Line from Blackfriars to Mansion
House, then Northern Line, Bank to Angel?

No, not this weekend at least (i.e. no engineering works on either
line).

And yes, I see what you've done there - suggesting walking at street
level between Mansion House and Bank stations, rather than the long
subterranean walk between Monument and Bank stations.

A couple of principle issues with that:

(1) It's just one stopI The whole idea of a one stop Underground
journey, especially when the two stations are pretty close, just
grates with me - I inevitably think, why not just walk instead?! An
amendment would be to go two stops to Cannon Street and then walk up
Walbrook or St Swithin's Lane to Bank.

Cannon Street is the nearest to Bank (so a shorter walk than from
Monument, street level or not), but it's not open on Sundays.

Sorry, my mistake. I had thought that Cannon Street's opening hours
had changed so it was open all weekend, but I got that quite wrong -
it's just saturdays and only until 1940, but it remains closed on
sundays.

The 2005 press release is hehttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/4106.aspx

Did Mansion House used to be closed on sundays as well, or am I making
that up?

I can't remember that. I think it's unlikely, because Temple was
closed on Sundays till fairly recently, and that would have been three
out of four stations closed along that stretch.

In fact, I only recently noticed that Temple is open on Sundays.

You have to go via Walbrook and Central Line even on Saturdays I
think, because they close the Northern Line entrance.

Thanks. Despite that, it's still a very convenient interchange.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"David A Stocks" wrote in message
...
I need to do the above trip next Sunday ...
(snipped)

Thanks for all the responses.

I decided to buy a Gold Card discounted Zones 1/2 ODTC. When I tried this
out on a fast-ticket machine at Victoria a day or two before there was no
problem. At Brighton a similar machine brought up the same option but then
refused to sell me the ticket, so I had to go to the ticket office. When I
explained what I needed to do ('stretch this Gold Card to Angel & back' the
guy behind the counter told me the ODTC was the sensible option and duly
sold it to me as 'Battersea Park to Zone 1&2' - I assume this means Southern
get a slice of the revenue? After that everything worked as advertised.

Some friends doing a similar trip from Horsham, made the mistake of going to
Victoria ...

D A Stocks

On 19 Nov, 10:02, "David A Stocks" wrote:
"David A Stocks" wrote in ...I need to do the above trip next Sunday ...

(snipped)

Thanks for all the responses.

I decided to buy a Gold Card discounted Zones 1/2 ODTC. When I tried this
out on a fast-ticket machine at Victoria a day or two before there was no
problem. At Brighton a similar machine brought up the same option but then
refused to sell me the ticket, so I had to go to the ticket office. When I
explained what I needed to do ('stretch this Gold Card to Angel & back' the
guy behind the counter told me the ODTC was the sensible option and duly
sold it to me as 'Battersea Park to Zone 1&2' - I assume this means Southern
get a slice of the revenue? After that everything worked as advertised.

Some friends doing a similar trip from Horsham, made the mistake of going to
Victoria ...

D A Stocks

NR-issued travelcards always do seem to have a "from" station on them,
which always seemed meaningless to me when the station is in the zones
covered by the travelcard.

But now I realise that it could be due to the system of allowing a
travelcard to incorporate a day return from the station named if it's
outside of the zones.

There would be no risk in this case of the ticket being retained on
returning to Battersea Park (if one did).

It has been suggested, although I would dispute it, that the
travelcard part can't be used after the return journey has been
completed. I can understand that it's only valid for one return
journey outside the zones, but I can't see why one couldn't get a lift
back to London and continue using the travelcard (other than due to
not physically having it).

"MIG" wrote

It has been suggested, although I would dispute it, that the
travelcard part can't be used after the return journey has been
completed. I can understand that it's only valid for one return
journey outside the zones, but I can't see why one couldn't get a lift
back to London and continue using the travelcard (other than due to
not physically having it).

It is certainly permitted to use a ODTC from Dartford (outside the zones) to
return there, and then use it on a London bus (Travelcards are valid on
buses which form part of the London bus network, even outside the GLC
boundary). It may be necessary to explain this at the ticekt barrier, and
not put the ticket into the gate.

Peter