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LT Museum Reopens
On 25 Nov, 13:06, thoss wrote:
At 12:30:19 on Sun, 25 Nov 2007 John Salmon opined:- [Crossposted to uk.railway] "Mizter T" wrote Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full and reduced rates! According to another message in this thread:- There is an Oyster pad on the ticket counter. I didn't ask about using it. Freedom passes get you free entry which might be what it's for. So, for a senior with a freedom pass, is it £6.50 or free? Always best to get it from the horses mouth: http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/visiting/106.aspx "Entry fee. Adults £8, Seniors £6.50 Students;£5.00, Freedom Pass holders and Under 16's free; Free" So it's free entry for Freedom Pass holders, and £6.50 for "Seniors" who don't hold a Freedom Pass (i.e. someone 60+ and not a resident of Greater London). Whether "Seniors" are 60+ or 65+ I don't know. There's nothing in the text that excludes disabled Freedom Pass holders from getting free entry either. |
Oyster e-money [was: LT Museum Reopens]
On 24 Nov, 20:18, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Mark Brader wrote: Tom Anderson writes: But do they take Oyster? You may think you're joking, I wasn't! It would be easy enough to do, i'd have thought, and a good wheeze. tom I think it would fall foul of regulatory issues though. I understand that if Oyster were to be used as a cashless payment system (for non- transport services) then it would have to be regulated by the FSA as if it were a bank - whilst as things stand, Oyster can only be used as an electronic ticket for travel so it doesn't fall within the scope of this regulation. There were indeed plans for Oyster to be used as a cashless payment system aka e-money card, for making small payments - much like the new Visa "payWave" system (which is utilised by the new Barclaycard Onepulse credit card). My understanding is that this would have thus meant the Oyster system would have to be regulated as if it were a bank, and TfL's plan was to partner with an existing bank or financial institution rather than become a bank themselves. However, whilst TfL talked to many banks there was a failure to agree terms with any of them. It appears the complex issues of costs and related commercial agreements just couldn't be, er, agreed. There's some press comment on this issue available he FT: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/296a2200-d...0779e2340.html The Times: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...icle711866.ece The Register / Kablenet: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05...tcard_shelved/ ZDNet: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement...9268126,00.htm I wonder if the banks were not also concerned with protecting their existing merchant payment infrastructure as well. The RFID-based 'pay- and-wave' systems for small purchases, available in the UK now from Visa ("PayWave") and soon from MasterCard ("PayPass"), are arguably much more agreeable to the banks as these new systems can be bolted on to their existing merchant payment infrastructure. Additionally the banks are very comfortable dealing with Visa and MasterCard when it comes to payment systems - unsurprisingly as that is their bread and butter and their clients are the banks - which is a further mark against any bank wishing to partner with TfL for an e-money system. Interestingly whilst the Octopus smartcard system in Hong Kong is often held up as an example of how Oyster could have moved into e- money, the FT article includes this comment from Tim Jones, a consultant to Simpay, a mobile payments platform: "Even in Hong Kong, where the Octopus card has been successful, 80 per cent of its use is for journeys, while only 20 per cent is from transactions made in shops" Of course as someone pushing an alternative e-money system he might well wish to do down the potential of Oyster e-money, but I've no reason to doubt that the statistic isn't correct. Perhaps this is all for the best, as the FT article also features comments from Will Judge - who was (still is?) Director of the Oyster E-Money programme (which I think is/was a role within TranSys rather than TfL) - stating that he thinks "there is a significant market for paying with Oyster cards at newsagents, public houses, parking machines, fast-food outlets and supermarkets". Oyster and pubs just sounds like a recipe for trouble! Can you not picture the scenario - the lubricated multitude leaving the hostelries of London town and then finding, to their puzzlement, on trying to board a bus or pass through a stations ticket gates, a delightful error code of 36, the Oyster equivalent of "go back three spaces" (or even "go to jail"?). |
LT Museum Reopens
At 06:09:27 on Sun, 25 Nov 2007 Mizter T opined:-
On 25 Nov, 13:06, thoss wrote: At 12:30:19 on Sun, 25 Nov 2007 John Salmon opined:- [Crossposted to uk.railway] "Mizter T" wrote Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full and reduced rates! According to another message in this thread:- There is an Oyster pad on the ticket counter. I didn't ask about using it. Freedom passes get you free entry which might be what it's for. So, for a senior with a freedom pass, is it £6.50 or free? Always best to get it from the horses mouth: http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/visiting/106.aspx "Entry fee. Adults £8, Seniors £6.50 Students;£5.00, Freedom Pass holders and Under 16's free; Free" So it's free entry for Freedom Pass holders, and £6.50 for "Seniors" who don't hold a Freedom Pass (i.e. someone 60+ and not a resident of Greater London). Whether "Seniors" are 60+ or 65+ I don't know. There's nothing in the text that excludes disabled Freedom Pass holders from getting free entry either. Thank you. -- Thoss |
LT Museum Reopens
On 25 Nov, 12:30, "John Salmon" wrote:
[Crossposted to uk.railway] "Mizter T" wrote Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full and reduced rates! Hmm, might be worth becoming a Friend, then- according to the leaflets that were out last weekend, that's £20 a year and free entry. |
LT Museum Reopens
Ian Jelf wrote:
Where are you looking at the opening time of the shop, Ian? http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/visiting/106.aspx says until 21:00 on Fridays. That was where I was looking and I'm absolutely certain that that has been altered since I looked the other day. Strange. Maybe they were initially just posting the existing times for the shop, although above it they had inserted the new opening times for the Museum. Google's cache backs you up :) Cached copy from 19/11/07 - http://preview.tinyurl.com/33epg8 |
LT Museum Reopens
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 06:09:27 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote: On 25 Nov, 13:06, thoss wrote: At 12:30:19 on Sun, 25 Nov 2007 John Salmon opined:- [Crossposted to uk.railway] "Mizter T" wrote Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full and reduced rates! According to another message in this thread:- There is an Oyster pad on the ticket counter. I didn't ask about using it. Freedom passes get you free entry which might be what it's for. So, for a senior with a freedom pass, is it £6.50 or free? Always best to get it from the horses mouth: http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/visiting/106.aspx "Entry fee. Adults £8, Seniors £6.50 Students;£5.00, Freedom Pass holders and Under 16's free; Free" So it's free entry for Freedom Pass holders, and £6.50 for "Seniors" who don't hold a Freedom Pass (i.e. someone 60+ and not a resident of Greater London). Whether "Seniors" are 60+ or 65+ I don't know. There's nothing in the text that excludes disabled Freedom Pass holders from getting free entry either. And where is the definition of a 'Senior' which was one of the issues raised? The original poster thinks it is 65. You are saying it is 60. The terms and conditions appear to relate to use of the website rather than the museum itself. |
LT Museum Reopens
On 25 Nov, 17:00, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 06:09:27 -0800 (PST), Mizter T wrote: On 25 Nov, 13:06, thoss wrote: At 12:30:19 on Sun, 25 Nov 2007 John Salmon opined:- [Crossposted to uk.railway] "Mizter T" wrote Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full and reduced rates! According to another message in this thread:- There is an Oyster pad on the ticket counter. I didn't ask about using it. Freedom passes get you free entry which might be what it's for. So, for a senior with a freedom pass, is it £6.50 or free? Always best to get it from the horses mouth: http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/visiting/106.aspx "Entry fee. Adults £8, Seniors £6.50 Students;£5.00, Freedom Pass holders and Under 16's free; Free" So it's free entry for Freedom Pass holders, and £6.50 for "Seniors" who don't hold a Freedom Pass (i.e. someone 60+ and not a resident of Greater London). Whether "Seniors" are 60+ or 65+ I don't know. There's nothing in the text that excludes disabled Freedom Pass holders from getting free entry either. And where is the definition of a 'Senior' which was one of the issues raised? The original poster thinks it is 65. You are saying it is 60. The terms and conditions appear to relate to use of the website rather than the museum itself. Argh - I hadn't vetted my post for logical inconsistencies! What I was trying and evidently failing to say is that I don't know whether a "'Senior' is someone 60+ or 65+. All I do know is that the Freedom Pass is for older London residents aged 60+. (The disabled Freedom Pass is available for those with eligible disabilities.) A quick look at various London Borough websites shows that they variously refer to the Freedom Pass as being for "elderly" or (I feel somewhat more appropriately) "older people". |
LT Museum Reopens
In message , Thunderbug
writes Ian Jelf wrote: Where are you looking at the opening time of the shop, Ian? http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/visiting/106.aspx says until 21:00 on Fridays. That was where I was looking and I'm absolutely certain that that has been altered since I looked the other day. Strange. Maybe they were initially just posting the existing times for the shop, although above it they had inserted the new opening times for the Museum. Google's cache backs you up :) Cached copy from 19/11/07 - http://preview.tinyurl.com/33epg8 Glad to know I'm not going mad. Potty, yes; but not mad per se. -- Ian Jelf, MITG Birmingham, UK Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
LT Museum Reopens
In message
, Ianigsy writes On 25 Nov, 12:30, "John Salmon" wrote: [Crossposted to uk.railway] "Mizter T" wrote Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full and reduced rates! Hmm, might be worth becoming a Friend, then- according to the leaflets that were out last weekend, that's £20 a year and free entry. And 10% off in the shop! -- Ian Jelf, MITG Birmingham, UK Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
LT Museum Reopens
In message , Ian Jelf
writes Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full and reduced rates! Hmm, might be worth becoming a Friend, then- according to the leaflets that were out last weekend, that's £20 a year and free entry. And 10% off in the shop! As do staff. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
LT Museum Reopens
On 25 Nov, 23:33, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message , Ian Jelf writes Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full and reduced rates! Hmm, might be worth becoming a Friend, then- according to the leaflets that were out last weekend, that's £20 a year and free entry. And 10% off in the shop! As do staff. You're a bit like the mafia, you lot... |
Oyster e-money [was: LT Museum Reopens]
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote:
On 24 Nov, 20:18, Tom Anderson wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Mark Brader wrote: Tom Anderson writes: But do they take Oyster? You may think you're joking, I wasn't! It would be easy enough to do, i'd have thought, and a good wheeze. I think it would fall foul of regulatory issues though. I understand that if Oyster were to be used as a cashless payment system (for non- transport services) then it would have to be regulated by the FSA as if it were a bank - whilst as things stand, Oyster can only be used as an electronic ticket for travel so it doesn't fall within the scope of this regulation. I've heard this story too. Not totally convinced by it. Especially in this case, where, since TfL operate the museum, the card is being used to pay TfL, exactly as with travel. tom -- 20 Minutes into the Future |
LT Museum Reopens
|
Oyster e-money [was: LT Museum Reopens]
On 26 Nov, 01:41, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote: (snip) I think it would fall foul of regulatory issues though. I understand that if Oyster were to be used as a cashless payment system (for non- transport services) then it would have to be regulated by the FSA as if it were a bank - whilst as things stand, Oyster can only be used as an electronic ticket for travel so it doesn't fall within the scope of this regulation. I've heard this story too. Not totally convinced by it. Especially in this case, where, since TfL operate the museum, the card is being used to pay TfL, exactly as with travel. tom Well, I guess the point is that the card would thus be being used to pay for something other than travel - AIUI it's the fact that the card is only used as an electronic ticket to pay for travel that exempts it from this regulation. |
Oyster e-money [was: LT Museum Reopens]
Mizter T wrote:
Well, I guess the point is that the card would thus be being used to pay for something other than travel - AIUI it's the fact that the card is only used as an electronic ticket to pay for travel that exempts it from this regulation. Starbucks [1] has a contactless payment system for coffee and Evening Standard [2] for newspapers - neither of which are travel... Maybe it's not the "travel" part that makes Oyster exempt, but "one use"? If so, mobile phone companies must be stretching it a bit with phone bills able to cover not just calls, but ringtones, games, and even parking tickets? BT's micropayment system Click&Buy [3] too? Maybe they're considered something like refillable gift cards from Boots rather than bank cards, but the difference between the two can't be much smaller than it is already. [1] http://starbucks.co.uk/en-GB/_Card/ [2] https://www.eroscard.co.uk/index.asp [3] http://www.epayments.bt.com/productinfo2.htm |
Oyster e-money [was: LT Museum Reopens]
In message
, Mizter T writes Well, I guess the point is that the card would thus be being used to pay for something other than travel - AIUI it's the fact that the card is only used as an electronic ticket to pay for travel that exempts it from this regulation. I'm not sure that's right. TfL certainly proposed to use Oyster as an eCash card and got close to trialling such a system, but never went ahead because of a lack of agreement about who would pay for processing, allocating payments, in-store machines and the like. AIUI, they still hope that Oyster will be used as an eCard at some time in the future. But that hope may be overtaken by developments such as the new Barclays "wave and pay" cards, that combine a debit card, Oyster and eCash card on a single piece of plastic. -- Paul Terry |
LT Museum Reopens
On 25 Nov, 12:30, "John Salmon" wrote:
[Crossposted to uk.railway] "Mizter T" wrote Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full and reduced rates! To change the subject a little, some impressions about the content. Starts off very well, and then finally ends up going downhill.....in a big way. Top floor is excellent. Large scale exhibits comprise a Sedan Chair, the reproduction Shillibere Bus (which you can sit in!), a Thomas Tilling Horse Bus, and a restored Horse tram. All in a diorama format with horses and period people. The Mezzanine Level is equally good, with a fine model dioramas on the construction of the underground, the Beyer Peacock locomotive (you can climb on part of the footplate), the Ashbury's carriage (you can sit in one of the compartments), 'John Hampden' (the Metropolitan electric locomotive), and a pre-war electric set, together with some interesting displays on 'Metroland'. The rest of the displays on the tube system are good, with a 'tupenny tube' electric loco, and a padded cell, carriage (that you can sit in). Much is made of the life and times of Frank Pick, and there is another example of tube stock to explore. Then.....disaster strikes. There has been an immense cull of the previous buses and trams. One electric tram, not representative of either LCC or LPTB. One trolleybus. An 'Old Bill' type General bus, and a taxicab. On the other side of the hall, a Greenline coach, a Routemaster, and a front entrance bus. So where are the rest? Apparently, at their large exhibits store. which is sometimes open to the public. So, given top and mezzanine levels, what has happened to the rest of the space? Well, there's a cafe/picnic area (in addition to the cafe in the new wing), a chidren's play area, but most of the space is given over to a lot of rather fatuous displays about the future of transport in London, most of which take up far too much space. Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to see more vehicles. A triumph of the designer over the curator, methinks.... Dr. Barry Worthington |
LT Museum Reopens
Dr. Barry Worthington ("Dr. Barry Worthington" )
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: Then.....disaster strikes. So, given top and mezzanine levels, what has happened to the rest of the space? but most of the space is given over to a lot of rather fatuous displays about the future of transport in London, most of which take up far too much space. Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to see more vehicles. A triumph of the designer over the curator, methinks.... Sounds more like a triumph of the politico/PR man over the curator... |
LT Museum Reopens
At 04:00:38 on Mon, 26 Nov 2007 Dr. Barry Worthington opined:-
On 25 Nov, 12:30, "John Salmon" wrote: [Crossposted to uk.railway] "Mizter T" wrote Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full and reduced rates! To change the subject a little, some impressions about the content. Starts off very well, and then finally ends up going downhill.....in a big way. Top floor is excellent. Large scale exhibits comprise a Sedan Chair, the reproduction Shillibere Bus (which you can sit in!), a Thomas Tilling Horse Bus, and a restored Horse tram. All in a diorama format with horses and period people. The Mezzanine Level is equally good, with a fine model dioramas on the construction of the underground, the Beyer Peacock locomotive (you can climb on part of the footplate), the Ashbury's carriage (you can sit in one of the compartments), 'John Hampden' (the Metropolitan electric locomotive), and a pre-war electric set, together with some interesting displays on 'Metroland'. The rest of the displays on the tube system are good, with a 'tupenny tube' electric loco, and a padded cell, carriage (that you can sit in). Much is made of the life and times of Frank Pick, and there is another example of tube stock to explore. Then.....disaster strikes. There has been an immense cull of the previous buses and trams. One electric tram, not representative of either LCC or LPTB. One trolleybus. An 'Old Bill' type General bus, and a taxicab. On the other side of the hall, a Greenline coach, a Routemaster, and a front entrance bus. So where are the rest? Apparently, at their large exhibits store. which is sometimes open to the public. So, given top and mezzanine levels, what has happened to the rest of the space? Well, there's a cafe/picnic area (in addition to the cafe in the new wing), a chidren's play area, but most of the space is given over to a lot of rather fatuous displays about the future of transport in London, most of which take up far too much space. Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to see more vehicles. A triumph of the designer over the curator, methinks.... That seems to be the way museums are going nowadays. Have you been to the Science Museum lately? Serious science exhibits have been banished in favour of kids' toys. -- Thoss |
LT Museum Reopens
On 26 Nov, 13:23, thoss wrote:
At 04:00:38 on Mon, 26 Nov 2007 Dr. Barry Worthington opined:- On 25 Nov, 12:30, "John Salmon" wrote: [Crossposted to uk.railway] "Mizter T" wrote Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full and reduced rates! To change the subject a little, some impressions about the content. Starts off very well, and then finally ends up going downhill.....in a big way. Top floor is excellent. Large scale exhibits comprise a Sedan Chair, the reproduction Shillibere Bus (which you can sit in!), a Thomas Tilling Horse Bus, and a restored Horse tram. All in a diorama format with horses and period people. The Mezzanine Level is equally good, with a fine model dioramas on the construction of the underground, the Beyer Peacock locomotive (you can climb on part of the footplate), the Ashbury's carriage (you can sit in one of the compartments), 'John Hampden' (the Metropolitan electric locomotive), and a pre-war electric set, together with some interesting displays on 'Metroland'. The rest of the displays on the tube system are good, with a 'tupenny tube' electric loco, and a padded cell, carriage (that you can sit in). Much is made of the life and times of Frank Pick, and there is another example of tube stock to explore. Then.....disaster strikes. There has been an immense cull of the previous buses and trams. One electric tram, not representative of either LCC or LPTB. One trolleybus. An 'Old Bill' type General bus, and a taxicab. On the other side of the hall, a Greenline coach, a Routemaster, and a front entrance bus. So where are the rest? Apparently, at their large exhibits store. which is sometimes open to the public. So, given top and mezzanine levels, what has happened to the rest of the space? Well, there's a cafe/picnic area (in addition to the cafe in the new wing), a chidren's play area, but most of the space is given over to a lot of rather fatuous displays about the future of transport in London, most of which take up far too much space. Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to see more vehicles. A triumph of the designer over the curator, methinks.... That seems to be the way museums are going nowadays. Have you been to the Science Museum lately? Serious science exhibits have been banished in favour of kids' toys. Dumbed down, along with school examinations, university "degrees", the broadcast media, newspapers and magazines, all to suit the reducing average intelligence of the population. |
LT Museum Reopens
"thoss" wrote in message
... At 04:00:38 on Mon, 26 Nov 2007 Dr. Barry Worthington opined:- That seems to be the way museums are going nowadays. Have you been to the Science Museum lately? Serious science exhibits have been banished in favour of kids' toys. Sadly this is the case. The same thing applies to the NRM in York to some extent and certainly to the excellent Tim Hunkin "How television works" displays at the Bradford Museum of Photography, Film and Television. If museums are to be made more appealing to children, there need to be other museums for people who want serious scientific exhibits which provide *information* and *explanation* as opposed just to fun and entertainment. Sometimes "kids' toys" can be very informative, though. There was a temporary exhibition at the Science Museum a few years ago about aerodynamics and what makes a plane fly. They had a miniature wind tunnel with foam wing sections which you could put your arm through to experience the forces of drag and lift, and the concept of stalling if you increase the angle of attack too far. Similarly they had an excellent demonstration of the complicated swash plate linkage on a helicopter which changes the pitch of each blade as the rotor turns so as it give more lift at one side, rolling and pitching the helicopter. What as shame that this exhibition was only temporary. |
LT Museum Reopens
Dr. Barry Worthington wrote:
The average public, including the children, would much prefer to see more vehicles. Yebbut there needs to be a balance. Sometimes there are so many exhibits in transport museums that one can't get a good look at them. I certainly came away from the transport museum in Zurich with that feeling, and I think it's true of the exhibits that are clustered around the turntable in the NRM Great Hall as well. (I'm not suggesting the problem is easy to solve, BTW.) -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683711.html (Class 120 unit at Manchester Victoria, Jun 1985) |
LT Museum Reopens
Sadly this is the case. The same thing applies to the NRM in York to some
extent and certainly to the excellent Tim Hunkin "How television works" displays at the Bradford Museum of Photography, Film and Television. That'll be the National Media Museum- they've embraced the 21st century and added the internet to their remit, but also included radio as a counterbalance. My guess (at least for the Science Museum and its outposts) would be that their exhibits nowadays are arranged on the basis that they have to assume more or less total ignorance on the part of the visitor. Similarly, the LT museum probably operates on the basis that they have to have a Routemaster because people expect to see one, with no real understanding of the context or of the old London Transport as an organisation which set itself out to sponsor advances in British design and engineering. It's a pity they don't have space to do something like the Glasgow transport museum and have a mock-up Underground station at least- perhaps Acton needs to be built up to be the enthusiasts' centre with Covent Garden as the general interest base for tourists. |
LT Museum Reopens
Dr. Barry Worthington wrote:
Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to see more vehicles. Really? The biggest problem with the old layout (for me at least) was that it had too many very similar buses/trams, and it just got dull very quickly. The current selection seems about right given the size of the space. I just wish the non-vehicle exhibits were more imaginative. U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
LT Museum Reopens
"Ianigsy" wrote in message ... Sadly this is the case. The same thing applies to the NRM in York to some extent and certainly to the excellent Tim Hunkin "How television works" displays at the Bradford Museum of Photography, Film and Television. That'll be the National Media Museum- they've embraced the 21st century and added the internet to their remit, but also included radio as a counterbalance. My guess (at least for the Science Museum and its outposts) would be that their exhibits nowadays are arranged on the basis that they have to assume more or less total ignorance on the part of the visitor. Similarly, the LT museum probably operates on the basis that they have to have a Routemaster because people expect to see one, with no real understanding of the context or of the old London Transport as an organisation which set itself out to sponsor advances in British design and engineering. It's a pity they don't have space to do something like the Glasgow transport museum and have a mock-up Underground station at least- perhaps Acton needs to be built up to be the enthusiasts' centre with Covent Garden as the general interest base for tourists. Perhaps some well financed enthusiasts could tunnel from Charing Cross (Jubilee) to Aldwych, and set up a preserved line... Paul |
LT Museum Reopens
David of Broadway wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:09:41 +0000, Paul Scott wrote: Perhaps some well financed enthusiasts could tunnel from Charing Cross (Jubilee) to Aldwych, and set up a preserved line... Charing Cross seems to me to be an excellent location for a museum annex, with two tracks available for static car displays. ... except that it does get used from time to time for reversing trains when the Jubilee service is suspended south of (east of?) Green Park. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
LT Museum Reopens
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:01:15 -0500, David of Broadway wrote:
Perhaps some well financed enthusiasts could tunnel from Charing Cross (Jubilee) to Aldwych, and set up a preserved line... Charing Cross seems to me to be an excellent location for a museum annex, with two tracks available for static car displays. The station is presumably still reasonably accessible, and it's even in walking distance of the main museum at Covent Garden. So is Aldwych. And that happens to have a fully usable running line... |
LT Museum Reopens
On 27 Nov, 00:01, David of Broadway
wrote: On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:09:41 +0000, Paul Scott wrote: Perhaps some well financed enthusiasts could tunnel from Charing Cross (Jubilee) to Aldwych, and set up a preserved line... Charing Cross seems to me to be an excellent location for a museum annex, with two tracks available for static car displays. The station is presumably still reasonably accessible, and it's even in walking distance of the main museum at Covent Garden. I've modeled this idea on the New York Transit Museum, which is housed in a decommissioned terminal station. The platform level has a static car display while the other exhibits are on the mezzanine level. The museum buses are, unfortunately, kept off-site, and are only brought out for special events. (snip) OK, where do I start! Charing Cross Tube station is sill very much open for business on the Northern and Bakerloo lines, it is only the Jubilee line that is now closed to passengers (since 1999 and the Jubilee line extension diverted the line from Green Park to Westminster and then on east). However the Jubilee platforms are still used fairly regularly as a useful place to reverse trains if there's been some fowl-up somewhere on the line. So that's the first problem. The second is that there isn't actually much space down there - sure, there's two full length platforms but these are of the deep-level tube type, with an associated central concourse tunnel and a set of escalators (and a number of other passageways - I forget the layout). But this isn't any significant amount of space whatsoever - no mezzanine level or anything like that, so it's not a similar space to the New York Transit Museum (at least going by the the photos I've just looked at on the net). I'm also quite sure that even if these two intractable problems with this plan somehow weren't intractable, there'd be no desire to have museum goers intermingling with passengers within the station, as there isn't any independent access to the platforms other than through the station complex. Then of course there'd be the issue of actually getting the rolling stock to those platforms - bearing in mind that the LU lines aren't that interconnected, and that increasingly each of the deep-level tube lines are set up to use their specific stock only. Moving other stuff around is certainly possible under an engineering possession (perhaps with the need to use battery locos), but as you can see things are getting complicated. And of course only deep-level tube stock would actually fit down there! So I dare suggest the Charing Cross annexe isn't at the top of the LT Museum curator's to-do list! |
LT Museum Reopens
Mizter T wrote:
So I dare suggest the Charing Cross annexe isn't at the top of the LT Museum curator's to-do list! A tube platform is unsuitable anyway, because the surface stock wouldn't fit, and you could only have a dozen or so carriages in a two platform station. repeating myself There are two soon-to-be-unused tracks stretching from Farringdon to Moorgate, passing a short walk from the Museum Of London. The tracks are probably large enough for everything - I'm sure even A-stock would fit. |
LT Museum Reopens
David of Broadway wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:07:38 +0000, John Rowland wrote: Mizter T wrote: So I dare suggest the Charing Cross annexe isn't at the top of the LT Museum curator's to-do list! A tube platform is unsuitable anyway, because the surface stock wouldn't fit, and you could only have a dozen or so carriages in a two platform station. Tube stock is better than no stock. And a dozen carriages would be great! repeating myself There are two soon-to-be-unused tracks stretching from Farringdon to Moorgate, passing a short walk from the Museum Of London. The tracks are probably large enough for everything - I'm sure even A-stock would fit. Ah - excellent point! That gets us static displays on two tracks at Moorgate and Barbican - much better than Charing Cross alone. Will the tracks remain connected to the Thameslink line at Farrington? No, but since they are alongside the Met, that wouldn't be a problem. I was thinking that one track would be turned into a "platform" stretching from Farringdon to Moorgate, and the other would be filled with trains. |
LT Museum Reopens
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 01:17:57 -0500, David of Broadway
wrote: On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 01:05:07 +0000, James Farrar wrote: (And that reminds me, I haven't seen David of Broadway around for a while...) Hello there! Now that's what I call service :) |
LT Museum Reopens
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 09:30:26 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote: A quick look at various London Borough websites shows that they variously refer to the Freedom Pass as being for "elderly" or (I feel somewhat more appropriately) "older people". Which, of course, leads to the inevitable reply "older than whom?"... |
LT Museum Reopens
Mortimer wrote:
If museums are to be made more appealing to children, there need to be other museums for people who want serious scientific exhibits which provide *information* and *explanation* as opposed just to fun and entertainment. And for the geeky kids who want the hardcore stuff.... -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
LT Museum Reopens
On 27 Nov, 04:31, David of Broadway
wrote: An interesting idea, if feasible. I take it there's a track connection with the Met? I don't believe so. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the old Thameslink track gets reused to build stabling sidings, as the existing ones just east of Farringdon are too short for 7 car S stock. Though those sidings could then be used as a museum, as could the others that will no longer be usable. I'd suggest Triangle Sidings (within the Circle/District junction triangle in Kensington) - it has plenty of space and is just down the street from the Science/Natural History/V&A museums. U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
Oyster e-money [was: LT Museum Reopens]
Thunderbug wrote in news:474a8bac$0$13932
: Mizter T wrote: Well, I guess the point is that the card would thus be being used to pay for something other than travel - AIUI it's the fact that the card is only used as an electronic ticket to pay for travel that exempts it from this regulation. Starbucks [1] has a contactless payment system for coffee and Evening Standard [2] for newspapers - neither of which are travel... Maybe it's not the "travel" part that makes Oyster exempt, but "one use"? If so, mobile phone companies must be stretching it a bit with phone bills able to cover not just calls, but ringtones, games, and even parking tickets? BT's micropayment system Click&Buy [3] too? Maybe they're considered something like refillable gift cards from Boots rather than bank cards, but the difference between the two can't be much smaller than it is already. [1] http://starbucks.co.uk/en-GB/_Card/ [2] https://www.eroscard.co.uk/index.asp [3] http://www.epayments.bt.com/productinfo2.htm No doubt someone could convince the authorities that it _is_ being used for travel. It enables foot-mode travel in the museum. BTW, here (in Israel) you can pay for snacks/drinks from machines in e.g. hospitals and railway stations with your cellphone (for a small surcharge). |
LT Museum Reopens
"David of Broadway" wrote I also thought of Aldwych, but Aldwych only has one track (correct?), and new lifts would need to be installed to provide access (which I believe was the reason it closed in 1994 in the first place). The Aldwych branch was originally double track (more accurately, two single tracks) but one track, and one platform at Aldwych, were abandoned for rail use during WW1. This site has a lot of details and photographs: http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...ne/index.shtml Peter |
LT Museum Reopens
"Mizter T" wrote However the Jubilee platforms are still used fairly regularly as a useful place to reverse trains if there's been some fowl-up somewhere on the line. Chickens on the line? Peter |
LT Museum Reopens
David of Broadway wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:44:09 +0000, John Rowland wrote: David of Broadway wrote: On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:07:38 +0000, John Rowland wrote: repeating myself There are two soon-to-be-unused tracks stretching from Farringdon to Moorgate, passing a short walk from the Museum Of London. The tracks are probably large enough for everything - I'm sure even A-stock would fit. Ah - excellent point! That gets us static displays on two tracks at Moorgate and Barbican - much better than Charing Cross alone. Will the tracks remain connected to the Thameslink line at Farrington? No, but since they are alongside the Met, that wouldn't be a problem. I was thinking that one track would be turned into a "platform" stretching from Farringdon to Moorgate, and the other would be filled with trains. An interesting idea, if feasible. I take it there's a track connection with the Met? No. There would be no point - anyway, it doesn't have fourth rail electrification. |
LT Museum Reopens
On 27 Nov, 09:21, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote However the Jubilee platforms are still used fairly regularly as a useful place to reverse trains if there's been some fowl-up somewhere on the line. Chickens on the line? Peter ITYM finches - they seem to hang around a lot near a wharf on the eastern end of the line, they're probably hiding away from all the dogs on the island. (Though of course they're only fowl in the loosest meaning of the word.) |
LT Museum Reopens
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 10:48:06AM +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:
It doesn't surprise me at all that it was that busy. It used to be terribly busy at weekends as did the shop. The novelty value of it reopening will take a while to wear off. I imagine it will be busy most of the time until January and very busy during the holiday period. I hope it'll be a bit quieter mid-week in December, cos I've got some time off work and was intending to go. -- David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive Arbeit macht Alkoholiker |
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