On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 05:34:48 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote:

I thought people here might be interested in the diagram I've made of
King's Cross and St Pancras, showing the passageways and routes around
the whole complex in the style of the tube map (I know a proper
floorplan would have been much more useful, but that turned out to be
way too hard). Links and a bit more explanation are on my blog:

http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...s-novelty.html
U

Very nice, thankyou.

But should there be a link from Pancras Road to the south end of StP
concourse, the actual route being up steps, through the archway and
past THAT statue?

--
Peter Lawrence

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 22:47:28 -0000, "Peter Masson"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 14:25:06 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote:



My understanding is that it's staying basically the same, but all the
tunnels are being enlarged and the stairs are being replaced by
escalators. The Picc escalators appear to head north from the
currently blocked off part of the Thameslink tunnel (which will be the
main tunnel) and come out in the same cross passage as the temporary
stairs.

It's the escalators that I hadn't picked up on. That certainly makes a
load of sense in the context of the closed off bit of the Thameslink -
Picc Line tunnel.

Where was the entrance to what is now Kings Cross Thameslink, before the
BedPan electrification? I am pretty sure it wasn't where the Kings Cross
Thameslink entrance is, but I can't recall quite where it was.

IIRC either St Chads Place or the even shorter road between Grays Inn
Road and Caledonian Road.

When the Metropolitan and Circle platforms were alongside what is now Kings
Cross Thameslink there was said to be a subway to that station from the
Kings Cross concourse. Can any remains of it be seen anywhere, and in
particular, was any of it incorporated into the Piccadilly to Kings Cross
Thameslink subway?

Peter

On 7 Dec, 13:43, wrote:

In the main its very good - I note your sense of humour extends to
including platform 9 3/4 but doesn't go as far as listing Grand
Central as an operator out of KX!! :-)

Yeah, if you can show "York Road closed 1932" then surely you can also
mention "Grand Central - starting 2032".

Jonathan

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:52:37 -0800 (PST), jonmorris
wrote:

On 7 Dec, 13:43, wrote:

In the main its very good - I note your sense of humour extends to
including platform 9 3/4 but doesn't go as far as listing Grand
Central as an operator out of KX!! :-)

Yeah, if you can show "York Road closed 1932" then surely you can also
mention "Grand Central - starting 2032".

York Road actually existed, something in the future never has.

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 22:47:28 -0000, "Peter Masson"
wrote:

Where was the entrance to what is now Kings Cross Thameslink, before
the BedPan electrification? I am pretty sure it wasn't where the
Kings Cross Thameslink entrance is, but I can't recall quite where
it was.

IIRC either St Chads Place or the even shorter road between Grays Inn
Road and Caledonian Road.

....since that road is called "Kings Cross Bridge", it sounds possible.

On 10 Dec, 00:30, Charles Ellson wrote:

York Road actually existed, something in the future never has.

Sense of humour failure alert!!!

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:36:21 -0800 (PST), Jonathan Morris
wrote:

On 10 Dec, 00:30, Charles Ellson wrote:

York Road actually existed, something in the future never has.

Sense of humour failure alert!!!

Nah. Post-midnight posting syndrome. ;-)

In message , at 22:03:33 on Fri, 7 Dec
2007, Roland Perry writes
the main concourse is at ground level, and the main entry/exit
from the platforms will still be directly from the existing front of the
station, towards the new square, and also via the western side concourse,
which will clearly provide much improved access to the underground. There
will also be a mezzanine level for cafes & shops etc.

Unfortunately there isn't a small size report I can link to, but its all on
the Camden site if you slog through it...

I'm sure that last time I looked the platform ends were going to be
*only* exits [1]. I printed it out when this last came up, but that's
at home 300 miles away. Later this weekend, maybe...

Found it at last. An Arup report for Network Rail "Station Design and
Passenger Movements, dated July 2006, Job Number 118944/03.

I can find no trace of this online at the moment.

I agree that the text does say that departing passengers will go via
both the gateline and the bridge from the [western] Mezzanine, but all
the several passenger-flow diagrams in the report only show departures
for Platforms 1-7 via the bridge.

Part of the problem is that it seems you won't be able to access the
circulating area at the platform ends until *after* going through a
gateline (at which point you are cut off from the Mezzanine facilities).
So it's more likely that people with day-tickets will wait within the
Mezzanine area until their train is given a platform number and they
start to board.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

the main concourse is at ground level, and the main entry/exit
from the platforms will still be directly from the existing front of the
station, towards the new square, and also via the western side concourse,
which will clearly provide much improved access to the underground. There
will also be a mezzanine level for cafes & shops etc.

Unfortunately there isn't a small size report I can link to, but its all
on
the Camden site if you slog through it...

I'm sure that last time I looked the platform ends were going to be *only*
exits [1]. I printed it out when this last came up, but that's at home 300
miles away. Later this weekend, maybe...

Found it at last. An Arup report for Network Rail "Station Design and
Passenger Movements, dated July 2006, Job Number 118944/03.

I can find no trace of this online at the moment.

That's the one, buried in the Camden sight as I suggested.

I agree that the text does say that departing passengers will go via both
the gateline and the bridge from the [western] Mezzanine, but all the
several passenger-flow diagrams in the report only show departures for
Platforms 1-7 via the bridge.

I think you are possibly misinterpreting this. If you look at the diagram on
page 5 (repeated as fig 1 on page 10) for instance, I'm taking the red
arrows to be pax arriving at the station [to catch a train] and blue as
departing [having arrived on a train]. If so the thick red arrows from the
'southern circulation area' are what we would describe as 'departures', and
are drawn proportionately, although it might have been clearer if they had
carried on to the individual platforms?

Part of the problem is that it seems you won't be able to access the
circulating area at the platform ends until *after* going through a
gateline (at which point you are cut off from the Mezzanine facilities).
So it's more likely that people with day-tickets will wait within the
Mezzanine area until their train is given a platform number and they start
to board.

Thats how I understand it for those type of pax, but its much the same as eg
Euston, Liverpool St, and shortly Waterloo, and IIRC at KX pax are held
queuing in the existing concourse for peak/busy long distance trains anyway.
Of course as you mention in another post, daily commuters will expect to
speed straight past all this, clutching their seasons.

All the major stations seem to be becoming more like airports, and the use
of gatelines, and not announcing platform details until shortly before
departure, retains pax in the concourse. Even little Marylebone has gone
very much this way...

Paul

In message , at 11:28:36 on
Wed, 12 Dec 2007, Paul Scott remarked:
I agree that the text does say that departing passengers will go via both
the gateline and the bridge from the [western] Mezzanine, but all the
several passenger-flow diagrams in the report only show departures for
Platforms 1-7 via the bridge.

I think you are possibly misinterpreting this. If you look at the diagram on
page 5 (repeated as fig 1 on page 10) for instance, I'm taking the red
arrows to be pax arriving at the station [to catch a train] and blue as
departing [having arrived on a train]. If so the thick red arrows from the
'southern circulation area' are what we would describe as 'departures', and
are drawn proportionately, although it might have been clearer if they had
carried on to the individual platforms?

Yes, I agree. What I was mainly saying was the lack of continuing the
red arrows beyond Platform 8 was the reason why I didn't think
departures would be happening via the platform ends.

I'm wondering how this will all work in practice, the report goes into a
lot of detail about what happens if it rains. Will we really see crowds
of people huddling outside (under a canopy or otherwise) waiting to see
if their train is going from platform 1 or 5, before they cross the
gateline? Or will they head for the area near the platform 8 buffers. I
have particularly in mind those few Cambridge train that depart from the
main shed just to confuse everyone. Later, they may go via SPILL, of
course.
--
Roland Perry