[OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam
 

In message , Paul Terry
writes
In message , Ian Jelf
writes

The Telegraph article has muddled up a few things. One is that
although exempt from the writ of the Metropolitan Police.......it
would be, as it's in the City.

That'll be news to the London Borough of Camden, then, since they seem
to think that Ely Place is in their borough:

http://www3.camden.gov.uk/templates/...lb_no=380#appM
ainSiteBaseURL#/udp

Anyway, for all that Ely Place is still exempt from the authority of
the City Corporation and therefore of the Lord Mayor.

I believe that most parts of the London Borough of Camden are similarly
exempt :)

The city boundary runs along Charterhouse Street - Ely place is just
north of it, in Camden (and therefore in the Metropolitan Police
District).

Now I *know* this is going to look like back-pedaling on my part grin
but as all my notes refer to Ely Place's exemption from City (and
Mayoral) jurisdiction, I wonder if this is one of those places where the
City boundary has moved slightly since mediaeval times? After all
,there would have been nothing "special" about it being outside the
jurisdiction of the City if it wasn't "within" it. If it had always been
outside the City, then any "exemptions" would have referred to it being
outside the jurisdiction of Middlesex (pre 1888) or the County of London
(post 1888).

I have been genuinely surprised by the lack of online information about
this subject.

Anyone have any earlier boundary maps to hand?

Sorry for any inaccuracies posted, anyway.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam
 

In message , Ian Jelf
writes

Now I *know* this is going to look like back-pedaling on my part grin
but as all my notes refer to Ely Place's exemption from City (and
Mayoral) jurisdiction, I wonder if this is one of those places where
the City boundary has moved slightly since mediaeval times?

Always possible, although most ward boundaries have not moved greatly.

What I think may be more significant is that most senior bishops set-up
their London residences outside the city: Canterbury in Lambeth, Durham
and Norwich in the Strand, Winchester in Southwark, Ely just north of
Farringdon ...

--
Paul Terry

[OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam
 

Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Paul Terry
writes
[...]
The city boundary runs along Charterhouse Street - Ely place is
just north of it, in Camden (and therefore in the Metropolitan
Police District).

Now I *know* this is going to look like back-pedaling on my part
grin but as all my notes refer to Ely Place's exemption from City
(and Mayoral) jurisdiction, I wonder if this is one of those places
where the City boundary has moved slightly since mediaeval times?
After all ,there would have been nothing "special" about it being
outside the jurisdiction of the City if it wasn't "within" it. If
it had always been outside the City, then any "exemptions" would
have referred to it being outside the jurisdiction of Middlesex
(pre 1888) or the County of London (post 1888).

I have been genuinely surprised by the lack of online information
about this subject.

Anyone have any earlier boundary maps to hand?

1956: City boundary still shown as running across the southern end of
Ely Place (Bartholomew street atlas)

At http://www.zigguratonline.com/clerkenwellhisto.html :
"In medieval times, the Bishop of Ely was a powerful man. He built his
palace just outside the City of London, at nearby Ely Place."

At http://www.british-history.ac.uk/rep...x?compid=63117 there's a
digest of historical mentions of Ely Place which includes:

"Ely Court: outside the City boundary (Bacon, 1912)."
and
"Six messuages and forty acres of land in Ely (in) London, the suburb of
London and the parish of St. Andrew Holeburn to be alienated to the
prior and convent of Ely, 1335-9 (Cal. P.R. Ed. III. 1334-8, p. 107)."

At http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/M...w/churches.htm :
"Holborn, St.Andrew, Holborn Viaduct [mediæval - pre-Conquest -before
951] parish originally partly within the City jurisdiction, partly in
Middlesex."

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

[OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam
 

In message , Richard
J. writes
1956: City boundary still shown as running across the southern end of
Ely Place (Bartholomew street atlas)

At http://www.zigguratonline.com/clerkenwellhisto.html :
"In medieval times, the Bishop of Ely was a powerful man. He built his
palace just outside the City of London, at nearby Ely Place."

At http://www.british-history.ac.uk/rep...x?compid=63117 there's a
digest of historical mentions of Ely Place which includes:

"Ely Court: outside the City boundary (Bacon, 1912)."
and
"Six messuages and forty acres of land in Ely (in) London, the suburb
of London and the parish of St. Andrew Holeburn to be alienated to the
prior and convent of Ely, 1335-9 (Cal. P.R. Ed. III. 1334-8, p. 107)."

At http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/M...w/churches.htm
:
"Holborn, St.Andrew, Holborn Viaduct [mediæval - pre-Conquest -before
951] parish originally partly within the City jurisdiction, partly in
Middlesex."

So apart from that last item, nothing to suggest a former presence in
(or "within") the City. I've since had a look at the London
Encyclopaedia (p266-7). This makes the statement that Ely place "does
not form part of the City of London and is exempt from the authority of
the Lord Mayor" (I think this might have been the original source for
the lecture on which my notes were based.

I also have a possibly erroneous mental image of an "Ely Place" street
sign in the City Corporation style, white with a black border and with
the city coat of arms at the side.

Methinks a trip to have a look is overdue!
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam
 

This is all great stuff and I'd like to thank all the contributors so
far. I am overdue for a trip to the Old Mitre anyway so I might try
and pop down next week.

[OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam
 

In article ,
(Ian Jelf) wrote:

In message ,
Richard J. writes
1956: City boundary still shown as running across the southern end
of Ely Place (Bartholomew street atlas)

At http://www.zigguratonline.com/clerkenwellhisto.html :
"In medieval times, the Bishop of Ely was a powerful man. He built
his palace just outside the City of London, at nearby Ely Place."

At http://www.british-history.ac.uk/rep...x?compid=63117 there's
a digest of historical mentions of Ely Place which includes:

"Ely Court: outside the City boundary (Bacon, 1912)."
and
"Six messuages and forty acres of land in Ely (in) London, the suburb
of London and the parish of St. Andrew Holeburn to be alienated to the

prior and convent of Ely, 1335-9 (Cal. P.R. Ed. III. 1334-8, p. 107)."

At
http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/M...w/churches.htm
:
"Holborn, St.Andrew, Holborn Viaduct [mediæval - pre-Conquest -before
951] parish originally partly within the City jurisdiction, partly in
Middlesex."

So apart from that last item, nothing to suggest a former presence
in (or "within") the City. I've since had a look at the London
Encyclopaedia (p266-7). This makes the statement that Ely place
"does not form part of the City of London and is exempt from the
authority of the Lord Mayor" (I think this might have been the
original source for the lecture on which my notes were based.

I also have a possibly erroneous mental image of an "Ely Place"
street sign in the City Corporation style, white with a black
border and with the city coat of arms at the side.

Methinks a trip to have a look is overdue!

I expect 'll be in that area on the evening of 16 January next week but
I'm not sure what one might see in the dark.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

[OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Ian Jelf) wrote:

I also have a possibly erroneous mental image of an "Ely Place"
street sign in the City Corporation style, white with a black
border and with the city coat of arms at the side.

I think so.

I expect 'll be in that area on the evening of 16 January next week
but I'm not sure what one might see in the dark.

Not a lot from Charterhouse Street, and Ely Place itself will probably be
locked.

[OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam
 

In article ,
(John Rowland) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Ian Jelf) wrote:

I also have a possibly erroneous mental image of an "Ely Place"
street sign in the City Corporation style, white with a black
border and with the city coat of arms at the side.

I think so.

I expect 'll be in that area on the evening of 16 January next
week but I'm not sure what one might see in the dark.

Not a lot from Charterhouse Street, and Ely Place itself will
probably be locked.

I was thinking of street name plates.

--
Colin Rosenstiel