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Old January 4th 08, 10:39 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default [OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam

Right,

In this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...roenclaves.xml

about exclaves, there are two dodgy assertions. Firstly:

"[Ely Place] is a little corner of Cambridgeshire, still enjoying freedom
from entry by the Metropolitan Police, except by invitation of the
Commissioners of Ely Place"

I don't dispute that Ely Place was technically a part of Cambridgeshire
for centuries (a joyously bonkers story), but another source states that
"Cambridgeshire officially handed over jurisdiction of Ely Place to Camden
Council sometime in the 1970's".

Secondly:

"according to EU regulations, all inter-EU mail has to go though a sorting
office in Amsterdam."

Which seems very, very unlikely indeed to be true.

Anyone got any ideas about these? I'm asking on utl because it's
frequented by the kind of person who i feel might know.

tom

--
Science is bound, by the everlasting vow of honour, to face fearlessly
every problem which can be fairly presented to it. -- Lord Kelvin

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Old January 5th 08, 10:45 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default [OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam

Tom Anderson wrote:
Right,

In this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...roenclaves.xml


about exclaves, there are two dodgy assertions. Firstly:

"[Ely Place] is a little corner of Cambridgeshire, still enjoying
freedom from entry by the Metropolitan Police, except by invitation of
the Commissioners of Ely Place"

I don't dispute that Ely Place was technically a part of Cambridgeshire
for centuries (a joyously bonkers story), but another source states that
"Cambridgeshire officially handed over jurisdiction of Ely Place to
Camden Council sometime in the 1970's".


Cambridgeshire council told me something broadly similar when I e-mailed
them to ask a couple of years ago.

Secondly:

"according to EU regulations, all inter-EU mail has to go though a
sorting office in Amsterdam."

Which seems very, very unlikely indeed to be true.

Anyone got any ideas about these? I'm asking on utl because it's
frequented by the kind of person who i feel might know.


A big company I used to work for sent outbound mail through some private
company, which then sent all the post via (I think) Germany en route to
its destination. We'd occasionally get phone calls from people puzzled
by seeing German markings on the envelopes.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
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Old January 5th 08, 01:39 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default [OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam

Arthur Figgis wrote:

A big company I used to work for sent outbound mail through some private
company, which then sent all the post via (I think) Germany en route to
its destination. We'd occasionally get phone calls from people puzzled
by seeing German markings on the envelopes.


I frequently get mass mailings from American companies I do business
with via Germany.
--
Michael Hoffman
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Old January 5th 08, 03:15 PM posted to uk.transport.london
Ken Ken is offline
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Default [OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:45:35 +0000, Arthur Figgis
wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
Right,

In this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...roenclaves.xml


about exclaves, there are two dodgy assertions. Firstly:

"[Ely Place] is a little corner of Cambridgeshire, still enjoying
freedom from entry by the Metropolitan Police, except by invitation of
the Commissioners of Ely Place"

I don't dispute that Ely Place was technically a part of Cambridgeshire
for centuries (a joyously bonkers story), but another source states that
"Cambridgeshire officially handed over jurisdiction of Ely Place to
Camden Council sometime in the 1970's".


Cambridgeshire council told me something broadly similar when I e-mailed
them to ask a couple of years ago.

I used to work in Ye Olde Mitre, the pub in Ely Court (between Ely
Place and Hatton Garden). AFAIK the Ely-Place-in-Cambs situation
ended in 1965 with the creation of the GLC and current London
Boroughs, although it was a good story which still survives in spite
of its not being true anymore! At one time I believe the licence for
the pub was issued by the Cambridgeshire magistrates.

The connection with Cambridgeshire comes from the still-extant RC
church of St Etheldreda's which came under the Bishops of Ely's
control as it was the chapel attached to their London palace. A
fascinating history is he
http://www.stetheldreda.com/history.html


--
Ken

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

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Old January 5th 08, 03:51 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam

On Jan 5, 2:39*pm, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:
A big company I used to work for sent outbound mail through some private
company, which then sent all the post via (I think) Germany en route to
its destination. We'd occasionally get phone calls from people puzzled
by seeing German markings on the envelopes.


I frequently get mass mailings from American companies I do business
with via Germany.
--
Michael Hoffman


DHL or TNT or some such is owned by Deutsche Post, so I imagine they
fly all their stuff from the US to Europe in to Germany and then
distribute it.
Tim


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Old January 5th 08, 05:23 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam

TimB wrote:
On Jan 5, 2:39 pm, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:
A big company I used to work for sent outbound mail through some private
company, which then sent all the post via (I think) Germany en route to
its destination. We'd occasionally get phone calls from people puzzled
by seeing German markings on the envelopes.

I frequently get mass mailings from American companies I do business
with via Germany.
--
Michael Hoffman


DHL or TNT or some such is owned by Deutsche Post, so I imagine they
fly all their stuff from the US to Europe in to Germany and then
distribute it.


DHL is. The items actually get Deutsche Post stamps on them!
--
Michael Hoffman
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Old January 6th 08, 01:13 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam

On 5 Jan, 18:23, Michael Hoffman wrote:
A big company I used to work for sent outbound mail through some private
company, which then sent all the post via (I think) Germany en route to
its destination. We'd occasionally get phone calls from people puzzled
by seeing German markings on the envelopes.
I frequently get mass mailings from American companies I do business
with via Germany.


DHL or TNT or some such is owned by Deutsche Post, so I imagine they
fly all their stuff from the US to Europe in to Germany and then
distribute it.


DHL is. The items actually get Deutsche Post stamps on them!


....while TNT is owned by the Dutch post office.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org
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Old January 6th 08, 05:14 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 06:13:40 -0800 (PST), John B
wrote:

...while TNT is owned by the Dutch post office.


And DPD actually stands for "Deutscher Paketdienst", not "Direct
Parcel Distribution" or any of the other translations that are usually
quoted.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.
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Old January 7th 08, 05:43 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default [OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam

In message , Ken
writes
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:45:35 +0000, Arthur Figgis
wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
Right,

In this article:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma.../2003/01/04/et
enclaves.xml


about exclaves, there are two dodgy assertions. Firstly:

"[Ely Place] is a little corner of Cambridgeshire, still enjoying
freedom from entry by the Metropolitan Police, except by invitation of
the Commissioners of Ely Place"

I don't dispute that Ely Place was technically a part of Cambridgeshire
for centuries (a joyously bonkers story), but another source states that
"Cambridgeshire officially handed over jurisdiction of Ely Place to
Camden Council sometime in the 1970's".


Cambridgeshire council told me something broadly similar when I e-mailed
them to ask a couple of years ago.

I used to work in Ye Olde Mitre, the pub in Ely Court (between Ely
Place and Hatton Garden). AFAIK the Ely-Place-in-Cambs situation
ended in 1965 with the creation of the GLC and current London
Boroughs, although it was a good story which still survives in spite
of its not being true anymore! At one time I believe the licence for
the pub was issued by the Cambridgeshire magistrates.

The connection with Cambridgeshire comes from the still-extant RC
church of St Etheldreda's which came under the Bishops of Ely's
control as it was the chapel attached to their London palace. A
fascinating history is he
http://www.stetheldreda.com/history.html


Sort of. It wasn't the creation of the (new) London Boroughs in 1965
that brought the jurisdiction to en end; that had effectively already
happened years before. However, Ely Place remains an administratively
unusual corner of London, remarkably famous for not being part of
something than for being part of it.

To try to add to what's already been said.......

The site was that of a London home of the Bishops of Ely from at least
the late 13th century. They were one of a number of Bishops who
exercised "!temporal" (secular, if you like) as well as spiritual power
within their area. Indeed, their "Liberty" around Ely eventually grew
into a (virtually [it's a long story and this isn't the place to tell
it]) separate county to Cambridgeshire.

This area, the "Palatine of the Isle of Ely", included the Bishop's
Palace in London, hence its administrative isolation from the City of
London.

The Bishops actually started to lose control of the area in the reign of
Elizabeth I. She actually forced them out of part of it so that her
Chancellor, Sir Christopher Hatton, could build a town house of his own
there. (It is he who gives his name to the adjoining Hatton Garden.)

They abandoned the rest in 1772 for a new home in Dover Street, off
Piccadilly (the former name of a LU station; how's that for getting
back on topic for utl?!).

Ely House, the former Bishops' Palace, was then demolished and the whole
area redeveloped. Ownership then passed to the Crown and any "real"
connection with Ely ceased. However, it was still not administratively
part of the City and for policing purposes existed in something of a
limbo. Shades of Burgundy in "Passport to Pimlico". Therefore, a
special Act of Parliament established commissioners and a Beadle to
oversee law and order and - just to confirm the enclave as Not Being in
The City - responsibility for paying for this and for licensing was
vested in the Ely authorities. This had the side-effect of requiring
the licence for the Mire inn to be issued in Ely. (These are the
"Commissioners of Ely Place" mentioned in the Telegraph article.)

In more recent times, a member of the Ely police force was attached to
the City of London Police. In effect, Ely just paid a nominal sum to
the City of London Police for this. Even this finished around 1903 (I
can't find an on-line mention of a date for this; I'm using notes from
my Blue Badge course).

The Telegraph article has muddled up a few things. One is that
although exempt from the writ of the Metropolitan Police.......it would
be, as it's in the City. What they;re trying to say is "exempt from
the writ of the City of London Police". The other is them talking
about things being historically run from Cambridgeshire. They mean The
Isle of Ely, which was a separate County from c1107 until 1965.

Anyway, for all that Ely Place is still exempt from the authority of the
City Corporation and therefore of the Lord Mayor. One of those
delightful little "quirks" of London life.

Hope this helps a bit.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk
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Old January 7th 08, 06:20 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default [OT] Ely Place, Cambridgeshire and mail sorting in Amsterdam

In message , Ian Jelf
writes

The Telegraph article has muddled up a few things. One is that
although exempt from the writ of the Metropolitan Police.......it would
be, as it's in the City.


That'll be news to the London Borough of Camden, then, since they seem
to think that Ely Place is in their borough:

http://www3.camden.gov.uk/templates/...teBaseURL#/udp

Anyway, for all that Ely Place is still exempt from the authority of
the City Corporation and therefore of the Lord Mayor.


I believe that most parts of the London Borough of Camden are similarly
exempt

The city boundary runs along Charterhouse Street - Ely place is just
north of it, in Camden (and therefore in the Metropolitan Police
District).

--
Paul Terry


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