On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:44:51 -0800 (PST), D7666
wrote:

various snipped out

I don't know what the current limit relays were set at on 501s but
being 4 motors per unit would be likely to draw more than a two motor
2EPB.

Published ''spotting book'' values of a 2EPB are 2x250 hp and 501
4x185 hp so that makes a 501 in round figures 50% more powerful than a
2EPB - but I'd caution those numbers with similar comments I have made
before about DC EMU in that the current limit relay setting needs to
be known to understand peak current draw.

As regards another part of the thread, I thought 2x313 operation was
killed by platform length limits. 501 units were on 57 foot frames
and platforms that could take 6cars laid out for that length - but
could not take standard 6car sliding door trains with 20 m bodies.

And I can't see why a 6car 313 would draw siginficantly more power
than a 6car 501 to trip traction supplies. Again using ''spotting
book'' values, without current limit values, a 313 has 8x82 kW motors
that in round figures is 880 hp per unit - while a 501 is 740 hp.

I would have expected the LNWR DC supply to have been a bit more
robust than that as the overall load increase taking all traffic is
not 20% from a simple 313 and 501 comparison - but is Bakerloo+501
c.f. Bakerloo+313 with the Bakerloo load unchanged.

Must admit never thought about this aspect before, I might be wrong,
its not a route thats easy to obtain gen on the traction supplies.

Don't the motor control systems of a class 313 present a more "peaky"
load than older stock ? This would in some way seem to be comparable
behaviour to computer switched-mode power supplies which blow plug
fuses if said fuses are rated purely on the current drawn after
switch-on. While I heard drivers allege that a 6-coach train tended to
trip sub-stations, I never heard any comment about being unable to fit
the trains in the stations which ISTR usually had about a
carriage-length to spare with c501s; when the 313s were first
introduced one difficulty was getting them to stop with any carriages
in the station and I don't think the cause was purely "driver
technique".

On Jan 18, 4:04 pm, Charles Ellson wrote:

Don't the motor control systems of a class 313 present a more "peaky"
load than older stock ?

AFAIK 313s (and 507/508) are simple camshaft operated resistance
control systems (although there my be some electronic supervision)
little different than anything built from 1930s onwards. If 313s have
a bigger peak current then that will be down to current limit relay
settings. Apat from knowing what that value is, I can't see why they'd
be more peaky than a 501.

--
Nick

Are the old LNWR sub-stations still used on the DC and NLL Lines?
There is a very typical-looking large brick building between Kenton
and South Kenton, another at Willesden Junction, but a similar
structure on the NLL near Brondesbury (once visible from the LUL
lines) has now gone.

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 04:19:29 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Does anyone know how many, if any. of the original LNWR sub-stations
are still in use? There are various large buildings adjacent to the
NLL/Euston DC Lines which seem to foor the bill but others have
disappeared. The one visible on the NLL from the Met/Jubilee Lines has
gone, as has another large structure which stood near East Putney on
the EN side.

Eh? This sounds like the LSWR, not LNWR!

Is the large building on the WCML side in the Kenton/
Northwick Park area a former LNWR sub?

Yes. AFAIK it is the only one still in use,; all the rest were taken
out of use in the 1940s, new rectifiers etc. being installed in
smaller buildings nearby. The buildings survive at Willesdan
Junction (derelict and rail-locked), South Acton and Headstone Lane
(both heavily adapted for other uses.) Dunno about Dalston
Junction.

There is a similar looking building at Harrow and W but this was not a
railway one.

The original Broad Street sub-station was beneath the viaduct somwhere
near Great Eastern Street; does anyone knowthe exact location please?


--
Peter Lawrence

Why are they closing the Vic from 22.00 until 4 November, so that they can
test, tincker with and troubleshoot the 09 series trains?

BTW, when and where will it be possible to see one of those trains?

On Jan 19, 4:09 pm, wrote:
Why are they closing the Vic from 22.00 until 4 November, so that they can
test, tincker with and troubleshoot the 09 series trains?

BTW, when and where will it be possible to see one of those trains?

That is difficult - the public parts of the Vic are all underground,
and as '9 stock is not in public service, you'll have to either visit
the depot or have some gen on test trains in traffic hours (of which
there are none - yet; but really the timetable does not allow for
traffic hours test trains).

--
Nick

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 00:09:28 GMT, wrote:

Why are they closing the Vic from 22.00 until 4 November, so that they can
test, tincker with and troubleshoot the 09 series trains?

BTW, when and where will it be possible to see one of those trains?

I have seen train one parked in the depot. It was sheer luck but I went
past on a 192 bus (starts from Tottenham Hale). It goes up Watermead Way
which rises above the Cambridge line and gives a good view of
Northumberland Park depot. If you opt to try this sit at the back of
the bus as you're higher up (it's only a little single deck).

IIRC there is also a footbridge from Watermead Way across the LU / NR
tracks but I think it is all caged so any view would be very restricted
or maybe even non existent. I've not used it myself.

I doubt very much, at this stage, that the public will be able to see
the V stock in test mode as it's all done under possession with no
public access. The latest LU intranet news about the Vic line early
closing said train 2 was due March / April time and it would enter
passenger service alongside 67 stock late 2008.
--
Paul C

On 20 Jan, 09:09, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 00:09:28 GMT, wrote:
Why are they closing the Vic from 22.00 until 4 November, so that they can
test, tincker with and troubleshoot the 09 series trains?

BTW, when and where will it be possible to see one of those trains?

I have seen train one parked in the depot. It was sheer luck but I went
past on a 192 bus (starts from Tottenham Hale). It goes up Watermead Way
which rises above the Cambridge line and gives a good view of
Northumberland Park depot. If you opt to try this sit at the back of
the bus as you're higher up (it's only a little single deck).

IIRC there is also a footbridge from Watermead Way across the LU / NR
tracks but I think it is all caged so any view would be very restricted
or maybe even non existent. I've not used it myself.

I doubt very much, at this stage, that the public will be able to see
the V stock in test mode as it's all done under possession with no
public access. The latest LU intranet news about the Vic line early
closing said train 2 was due March / April time and it would enter
passenger service alongside 67 stock late 2008.

How will they integrate the 2 different ATO systems for when both
train types are running in service? Do the new trains have the old
system on board as well?

B2003

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:33:07 -0800 (PST), Boltar
wrote:

On 20 Jan, 09:09, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 00:09:28 GMT, wrote:
Why are they closing the Vic from 22.00 until 4 November, so that they can
test, tincker with and troubleshoot the 09 series trains?

BTW, when and where will it be possible to see one of those trains?

I have seen train one parked in the depot. It was sheer luck but I went
past on a 192 bus (starts from Tottenham Hale). It goes up Watermead Way
which rises above the Cambridge line and gives a good view of
Northumberland Park depot. If you opt to try this sit at the back of
the bus as you're higher up (it's only a little single deck).

IIRC there is also a footbridge from Watermead Way across the LU / NR
tracks but I think it is all caged so any view would be very restricted
or maybe even non existent. I've not used it myself.

I doubt very much, at this stage, that the public will be able to see
the V stock in test mode as it's all done under possession with no
public access. The latest LU intranet news about the Vic line early
closing said train 2 was due March / April time and it would enter
passenger service alongside 67 stock late 2008.

How will they integrate the 2 different ATO systems for when both
train types are running in service? Do the new trains have the old
system on board as well?

New trains are fitted with current system to allow migration of stock.
When all the 67 stock is gone then you have all V stock on the current
ATO and then migration to full "distance to go" signalling follows. I
have no idea if that will be done section by section or in a "big bang"
switch over. My guess would be section by section as the alternative is
possibly too risky. Central Line was done section by section IIRC.

--
Paul C

Two questions:

-- Are the closures indeed to test the new rolling stock or their
prototypes?

-- Why is it called V stock? I thought it was 09 stock.

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 00:09:28 GMT, wrote:

Why are they closing the Vic from 22.00 until 4 November, so that they can
test, tincker with and troubleshoot the 09 series trains?

BTW, when and where will it be possible to see one of those trains?

I have seen train one parked in the depot. It was sheer luck but I went
past on a 192 bus (starts from Tottenham Hale). It goes up Watermead Way
which rises above the Cambridge line and gives a good view of
Northumberland Park depot. If you opt to try this sit at the back of
the bus as you're higher up (it's only a little single deck).

IIRC there is also a footbridge from Watermead Way across the LU / NR
tracks but I think it is all caged so any view would be very restricted
or maybe even non existent. I've not used it myself.

I doubt very much, at this stage, that the public will be able to see
the V stock in test mode as it's all done under possession with no
public access. The latest LU intranet news about the Vic line early
closing said train 2 was due March / April time and it would enter
passenger service alongside 67 stock late 2008.
--
Paul C