Hi

Boarding a train at Pimlico going north the southbound trains are on the
right if i face the front of the train. Somewhere between Pimlico and Kings
Cross they change to being on the left. Where do the lines go over and under
each other and is there a tube map published that would give information
like this.

Thanks

Clyde

On 30 Jan, 12:01, "clyde dempster"
wrote:
Boarding a train at Pimlico going north the southbound trains are on the
right if i face the front of the train. Somewhere between Pimlico and Kings
Cross they change to being on the left. Where do the lines go over and under
each other and is there a tube map published that would give information
like this.

Between Oxford Circus and Warren Street and back again between KXSP
and Highbury and Islington. It's so that the northbound and southbound
tracks are the same sides as the equivalent tracks at Euston, for
cross-platform interchange.

Here are two maps that show it:
http://web.archive.org/web/200603022...s/victoria.jpg
http://rodcorp.typepad.com/photos/va..._trackmap.html

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

In message
of
Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:37:13 in uk.transport.london, Mr Thant
writes
On 30 Jan, 12:01, "clyde dempster"
wrote:
Boarding a train at Pimlico going north the southbound trains are on the
right if i face the front of the train. Somewhere between Pimlico and Kings
Cross they change to being on the left. Where do the lines go over and under
each other and is there a tube map published that would give information
like this.

Between Oxford Circus and Warren Street and back again between KXSP
and Highbury and Islington. It's so that the northbound and southbound
tracks are the same sides as the equivalent tracks at Euston, for
cross-platform interchange.

Here are two maps that show it:
http://web.archive.org/web/200603022...net/~cambronj/
lu/track_schematics/victoria.jpg

I find that unusable. Is there anything that will scale up a .JPG file.
Answering my own question: not in IE, save the file and open in the
standard "Windows picture and fax viewer" which has zoom controls.

http://rodcorp.typepad.com/photos/va..._trackmap.html

That is good!

I prefer the diagram in
http://www.davros.org:80/rail/culg/victoria.html#layout.

Sadly, Clive lacks the time to complete his astounding work.
He has diagrams for Bakerloo, Central, Circle, Metropolitan, Victoria
and Waterloo & City lines.
He has text for Croydon Tramlink, District, East London, Hammersmith &
City, Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly lines. I am not yet able to
decode the text with ease.

I misread the Baker Street Bakerloo Southbound platform number as 5.
It is actually 8. OTOH, Jubilee N is 10 but displays as zero.

Talking about Baker Street, I NOW have a tactic for catching the first
Eastbound train. I wait in the main ticket hall inside the gateline
above platform 5 - I should have known THAT Bakerloo platform could not
be 5 - male toilets are on 5. I look at the display. I wait until an H&C
or Circle shows (never more than 1 minute before arrival) or a Met
service is within 2 minutes of arrival.
--
Walter Briscoe

Walter Briscoe wrote:
In message
of
Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:37:13 in uk.transport.london, Mr Thant

Here are two maps that show it:
http://web.archive.org/web/200603022...net/~cambronj/
lu/track_schematics/victoria.jpg

I find that unusable. Is there anything that will scale up a .JPG
file.

Just click on it (in IE).

On Jan 30, 2:01*pm, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
In message
of
Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:37:13 in uk.transport.london, Mr Thant
writes





On 30 Jan, 12:01, "clyde dempster"
wrote:
Boarding a train at Pimlico going north the southbound trains are on the
right if i face the front of the train. Somewhere between Pimlico and Kings
Cross they change to being on the left. Where do the lines go over and under
each other and is there a tube map published that would give information
like this.

Between Oxford Circus and Warren Street and back again between KXSP
and Highbury and Islington. It's so that the northbound and southbound
tracks are the same sides as the equivalent tracks at Euston, for
cross-platform interchange.

Here are two maps that show it:
http://web.archive.org/web/200603022...net/~cambronj/
lu/track_schematics/victoria.jpg

I find that unusable. Is there anything that will scale up a .JPG file.
Answering my own question: not in IE, save the file and open in the
standard "Windows picture and fax viewer" which has zoom controls.

http://rodcorp.typepad.com/photos/va..._trackmap.html

That is good!

I prefer the diagram in
http://www.davros.org:80/rail/culg/victoria.html#layout.


I wonder why the Victoria northbound goes over the Bakerloo, before
diving under the Northern, which goes under the Central, which goes
under the Bakerloo ...

There's a famous 3D diagram of Oxford Circus station which shows the
northbound Victoria line going, plausibly but incorrectly, under the
Bakerloo.

On Jan 30, 12:37 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 30 Jan, 12:01, "clyde dempster"
wrote:

Boarding a train at Pimlico going north the southbound trains are on the
right if i face the front of the train. Somewhere between Pimlico and Kings
Cross they change to being on the left. Where do the lines go over and under
each other and is there a tube map published that would give information
like this.

Between Oxford Circus and Warren Street and back again between KXSP
and Highbury and Islington. It's so that the northbound and southbound
tracks are the same sides as the equivalent tracks at Euston, for
cross-platform interchange.

Here are two maps that show it:http://web.archive.org/web/200603022..._trackmap.html

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

I suppose that explains the Northern Line's movement from left to
right between Moorgate & Bank until after Kennington. It must be to
make connections easier.

On 30 Jan, 18:39, Offramp wrote:
I suppose that explains the Northern Line's movement from left to
right between Moorgate & Bank until after Kennington. It must be to
make connections easier.

Er, the Northern Line switches back at Borough-ish, and is due to the
way the original crossing of the Thames to King William Street (near
Bank) was built, though it's a very long story.

If the lines need to switch at Euston because the northbound Northern
is going west while the northbound Victoria is going east. That's not
the case at Stockwell and Kennington.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

In message of Wed, 30 Jan 2008
14:24:51 in uk.transport.london, John Rowland
writes
Walter Briscoe wrote:
In message
of
Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:37:13 in uk.transport.london, Mr Thant

Here are two maps that show it:
http://web.archive.org/web/200603022...net/~cambronj/
lu/track_schematics/victoria.jpg

I find that unusable. Is there anything that will scale up a .JPG
file.

Just click on it (in IE).

Thanks, John.
I had failed to note the cursor change to a magnifying glass.
When I use it, it flips to a shrinking glass.
My right-click was ineffective.
--
Walter Briscoe

I suppose that explains the Northern Line's movement from left to
right between Moorgate & Bank until after Kennington. ...

Er, the Northern Line switches back at Borough-ish, and is due to the
way the original crossing of the Thames to King William Street (near
Bank) was built,

Correct.

though it's a very long story.

If so, it's a long story that is not given in any book I have seen and
which nobody has previously been able to provide in this newsgroup,
for example in this thread from 2004:

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tr...b65292fba60522

If you have an explanation, I'd like to see it, and the source.

To save time, here's the background: this section was originally built
by the City & South London Railway. They first intended to build a
cable-powered tube railway from King William Street to Elephant & Castle,
then got authority to extend south to Stockwell. During construction
management changed their minds and opted for electric locomotives.
The whole route from King William Steet to Stockwell opened in 1890.

The north end of the line was built west of London Bridge, curving
sharply round under Arthur Street with the King William Street terminus
on a more or less east-west alignment. The station was too small and
in 1900 both the station and the existing under-river crossing were
closed and the line rerouted onto its present, straighter alignment
(east of London Bridge) to a new terminus at Moorgate, with new
intermediate stops at London Bridge and Bank.

Now, the original route had the two tunnels crossing over between
Elephant & Castle and Borough, and since that section was never
replaced, they still do. So it's this part that needs to be explained.
As I said in the 2004 thread, "Rails Through the Clay" just says that
it's "related to the original intention to use cable haulage", and
that's not exactly an explanation.

(The return to the normal left-hand running is between Bank and Moorgate,
on the section opened in 1900. The curve under Arthur Street approaching
the old King William Street station had one track above the other, so
it didn't constrain any other part of the line.)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "You can write a small letter to Grandma
| in the filename." -- Forbes Burkowski

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On 30 Jan, 23:29, (Mark Brader) wrote:
If you have an explanation, I'd like to see it, and the source.

The most detailed explanation I've seen is this one from a very
hardcore expert:
http://districtdave.proboards39.com/...e=1#1163453810

The gist is the tunnels were built in stages with no real plan, and it
was very late on that a decision was taken to make the tunnel with the
shallowest gradient up to King William Street the northbound one,
which also happened to be the one on the right crossing the Thames.

(btw a while ago someone on here asked where exactly the lines cross
back at the north end. Judging purely by the forces exerted on my
arse, the southbound crosses over the northbound immediately south of
Moorgate)

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London