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FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
Can somebody please remind me of current policy regarding buying add-on
tickets from Boundary Zone 6 on the GN (which don't exist these days, they are issued from Hadley Wood, the boundary station) to stations beyond, specifically Huntingdon/Peterborough, when purchased as add-ons to an all-zones season ticket Travelcard? *Is* it necessary to stop at the boundary station when making such a journey? My understanding had always been that it was not, which was borne out by the number of times that I've bought them, without problems, over the years and had them inspected - without question. However, I recently had a run-in with an over-zealous ticket office clerk at King's Cross, who refused to sell me an add-on to my season ticket and insisted that I should buy a King's Cross to Peterborough ticket instead. After I showed him the return half of the previous one that I had bought and never been questioned on, he capitulated. The whole boundary station issue has been clouded for as many years as I've been travelling. In the seventies, it was necessary to stop at the boundary station between two tickets, in the eighties it was not necessary (certainly from BZ6, although tickets were then issued as Boundary Zone 6). My understanding of the current situation was that it was necessary to stop at the boundary station when "transferring" between two tickets, except where the ticket is an add-on to a season ticket. I've never had any previous problems on the GN, or on SouthEastern, South West Trains or any other TOC when buying an 'add-on'. Who's right? |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 17:14:44 GMT, "Jack Taylor"
wrote: Can somebody please remind me of current policy regarding buying add-on tickets from Boundary Zone 6 on the GN (which don't exist these days, they are issued from Hadley Wood, the boundary station) They should not be - they should be issued from "BOUNDARY ZONE 6" as they are on every other route. If they're not, they are a traditional ticket combination and so the train must stop unless one of them is a season. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
Jack Taylor wrote:
My understanding of the current situation was that it was necessary to stop at the boundary station when "transferring" between two tickets, except where the ticket is an add-on to a season ticket. Section 19 (c) of the Conditions of Carriage concurs: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system...misc/NRCOC.pdf (TfL is not a PTE) U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
Jack Taylor wrote:
Can somebody please remind me of current policy regarding buying add-on tickets from Boundary Zone 6 on the GN (which don't exist these days, they are issued from Hadley Wood, the boundary station) to stations beyond, specifically Huntingdon/Peterborough, when purchased as add-ons to an all-zones season ticket Travelcard? CDR Boundary Zone 6 - Huntingdon is showing as £16.00, SDR as £17.50, and SVR is £19.00. For Hadley Wood - Huntingdon, the figures are £16.00 CDR, £17.00 SDR and £19.00 SVR. There aren't any Boundary Zone 6 - Peterborough tickets, however, presumably due to PBO being outside the Network Area. *Is* it necessary to stop at the boundary station when making such a journey? Only if the "other" ticket is *NOT* a Season ticket, as per Condition 19 of the NCoC. HTH, Barry |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On 13 Apr, 18:19, (Neil Williams) wrote: On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 17:14:44 GMT, "Jack Taylor" wrote: Can somebody please remind me of current policy regarding buying add-on tickets from Boundary Zone 6 on the GN (which don't exist these days, they are issued from Hadley Wood, the boundary station) They should not be - they should be issued from "BOUNDARY ZONE 6" as they are on every other route. If they're not, they are a traditional ticket combination and so the train must stop unless one of them is a season. Which, in the case of the OP, it is - he has (in his words) an "all- zones season ticket Travelcard". Given that this thread is about clearing up confusion rather than creating it, perhaps we shouldn't stray into the counter-intuitive territory of how an "all-zones" Travelcard now no longer covers all the zones! |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
Mizter T wrote:
On 13 Apr, 18:19, (Neil Williams) wrote: They should not be - they should be issued from "BOUNDARY ZONE 6" as they are on every other route. If they're not, they are a traditional ticket combination and so the train must stop unless one of them is a season. Which, in the case of the OP, it is - he has (in his words) an "all- zones season ticket Travelcard". Thanks, one and all, for your contributions. I've always travelled Finsbury Park - Stevenage non-stop on a Hadley Wood - Huntingdon or Hadley Wood - Peterborough ticket (or, recently, a Cambridge - Hadley Wood ticket), on the understanding that the combination of my add-on ticket and my All-Zones Season Travelcard did not require me to make a stop at Hadley Wood (as per para 19c of the NRCOC). I've often been ticket-checked en route and have never been challenged by WAGN or FCC staff, which was why I was rather surprised by the individual at King's Cross (I usually buy my add-ons at Marylebone or Aylesbury). |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
In article , Barry Salter
writes *Is* it necessary to stop at the boundary station when making such a journey? Only if the "other" ticket is *NOT* a Season ticket, as per Condition 19 of the NCoC. Note, by the way, that a "Boundary Zone" ticket is *not* a separate ticket for the purposes of NCoC 19. Rather, it's a receipt for the additional fare to extend your journey, so that your Travelcard *becomes* the ticket valid for the journey to the named station. [This was hammered into me the other day when Kentish Town actually issued me a "zonal extension", on LU stock, when I asked for a BZ6 to Luton ticket. The gates at Luton were happy with it, though.] -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On 15 Apr, 11:03, "Clive D. W. Feather" cl...@on-the-
train.demon.co.uk wrote: In article , Barry Salter writes *Is* it necessary to stop at the boundary station when making such a journey? Only if the "other" ticket is *NOT* a Season ticket, as per Condition 19 of the NCoC. Note, by the way, that a "Boundary Zone" ticket is *not* a separate ticket for the purposes of NCoC 19. Rather, it's a receipt for the additional fare to extend your journey, so that your Travelcard *becomes* the ticket valid for the journey to the named station. [This was hammered into me the other day when Kentish Town actually issued me a "zonal extension", on LU stock, when I asked for a BZ6 to Luton ticket. The gates at Luton were happy with it, though.] Most interesting. Can you provide some more information as to how it was issued - did it actually state "zonal extension" in those words on the ticket, did it cost the right amount (i.e. what you'd be charged if you bought it as a National Rail ticket office), was it correctly discounted as per your Gold Card etc? |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
In article
, Mizter T writes [This was hammered into me the other day when Kentish Town actually issued me a "zonal extension", on LU stock, when I asked for a BZ6 to Luton ticket. The gates at Luton were happy with it, though.] Most interesting. Can you provide some more information as to how it was issued - did it actually state "zonal extension" in those words on the ticket, I'm fairly sure it did (I was running out of time before the train arrived, so I only glanced at it). It certainly did not carry either the term "Boundary Zone 6" or "Luton" on it. did it cost the right amount (i.e. what you'd be charged if you bought it as a National Rail ticket office), was it correctly discounted as per your Gold Card etc? I think so. The seller looked up the fare in a list which certainly had Luton as the row heading, and then went to a discount table. I paid 4.25; is that the right price for a single with Gold Card discount? -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:03:09 +0100, "Clive D. W. Feather"
wrote: In article , Barry Salter writes *Is* it necessary to stop at the boundary station when making such a journey? Only if the "other" ticket is *NOT* a Season ticket, as per Condition 19 of the NCoC. Note, by the way, that a "Boundary Zone" ticket is *not* a separate ticket for the purposes of NCoC 19. Rather, it's a receipt for the additional fare to extend your journey, so that your Travelcard *becomes* the ticket valid for the journey to the named station. [This was hammered into me the other day when Kentish Town actually issued me a "zonal extension", on LU stock, when I asked for a BZ6 to Luton ticket. The gates at Luton were happy with it, though.] Very interesting. Last week I had to travel from an FCC station somewhere north of London* to Redhill, and then around London. I was going to buy a one day "north of London" to R1256 travelcard and an East Croydon to Redhill day return (as I know all the Redhill trains stop at East Croydon). But the ticket office at the FCC station told me I was better getting a Boundary 6 to Redhill. I did ponder whether it was a valid combination for NCOC 19, but if you are saying that it is not a combination, but should be considered one ticket, that makes sense. *location removed as I wouldn't want the FCC station to get into trouble for suggesting cheaper tickets. |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 08:33:06 GMT, JB wrote:
R1256 travelcard What is an R1256 travelcard? -- jhk |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
In message , at 11:13:54 on
Sat, 19 Apr 2008, Jarle H Knudsen remarked: What is an R1256 travelcard? It is a travelcard for all zones 1-6. -- Roland Perry |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On 19 Apr, 10:13, Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
What is an R1256 travelcard? If you buy a combined day return/day Travelcard from a station outside London, it'll be marked as "To: R1256" rather than to London Terminals. U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On 19 Apr, 09:33, JB wrote: On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:03:09 +0100, "Clive D. W. Feather" wrote: In article , Barry Salter writes *Is* it necessary to stop at the boundary station when making such a journey? Only if the "other" ticket is *NOT* a Season ticket, as per Condition 19 of the NCoC. Note, by the way, that a "Boundary Zone" ticket is *not* a separate ticket for the purposes of NCoC 19. Rather, it's a receipt for the additional fare to extend your journey, so that your Travelcard *becomes* the ticket valid for the journey to the named station. [This was hammered into me the other day when Kentish Town actually issued me a "zonal extension", on LU stock, when I asked for a BZ6 to Luton ticket. The gates at Luton were happy with it, though.] Very interesting. Last week I had to travel from an FCC station somewhere north of London* to Redhill, and then around London. I was going to buy a one day "north of London" to R1256 travelcard and an East Croydon to Redhill day return (as I know all the Redhill trains stop at East Croydon). But the ticket office at the FCC station told me I was better getting a Boundary 6 to Redhill. I did ponder whether it was a valid combination for NCOC 19, but if you are saying that it is not a combination, but should be considered one ticket, that makes sense. *location removed as I wouldn't want the FCC station to get into trouble for suggesting cheaper tickets. So, for the sake of clarity, can we confirm that a 'Boundary Zone' ticket can also be used with a *Day* Travelcard - as the 'Boundary Zone' ticket is not in fact technically a separate ticket, merely a receipt for an additional fare? Absurdly, these issues still confuse me, and seemingly many others, despite the fact they come up at least every month! One feels an FAQ would be helpful - I'd happily compile one but for the fact that half my answers would be wrong! |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On 19 Apr, 10:30, Mr Thant wrote: On 19 Apr, 10:13, Jarle H Knudsen wrote: What is an R1256 travelcard? If you buy a combined day return/day Travelcard from a station outside London, it'll be marked as "To: R1256" rather than to London Terminals. It will also be thus marked if it is a season Travelcard too. Indeed, even if a Day or season Travelcard is bought from a station within London, it will be marked as "From: [station purchased at]" and "To: R1256" if it is a zones 1-6 Travelcard. Meanwhile a zones 2-6 Day or season Travelcard would be marked "To: R2356", whilst a zones 1-5 season would be marked "To: R1245". The "R" apparently stands for "Rail" - this doesn't make an awful lot of sense until you consider the alternative "U" marking which is for "Underground" - for example, one could purchase a Brighton to "U1" ticket, which is a Brighton to London Terminals ticket plus a single Underground journey in zone 1 - alternatively one could purchase a Peterborough to "U12" ticket, which is a ticket to London plus a single Underground journey in zones 1 & 2, so one could alight at Finsbury Park and get on the Victoria line to central London or indeed go all the way through to Brixton (in zone 2 on the other side). Just to be clear of any ambiguities, this of course doesn't mean that Travelcards marked "R" are only valid on National Rail - they are valid, as any Travelcard is, on all Underground and National Rail services in the relevant zones, and also for all London Bus services regardless of zones. |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:25:34 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:13:54 on Sat, 19 Apr 2008, Jarle H Knudsen remarked: What is an R1256 travelcard? It is a travelcard for all zones 1-6. Why is only 1256 used, and not 3 and 4? -- jhk |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On Apr 19, 11:59*am, Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
Why is only 1256 used, and not 3 and 4? Because it takes up less space. |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On Apr 19, 11:59*am, Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
Why is only 1256 used, and not 3 and 4? Because it takes up less space. |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
Mizter T wrote:
Absurdly, these issues still confuse me, and seemingly many others, despite the fact they come up at least every month! One feels an FAQ would be helpful - I'd happily compile one but for the fact that half my answers would be wrong! I totally agree - and, clearly, many of the staff trying to enforce the regulations are as confused as the travelling public! It seems to be a lottery whether you get challenged or not (and whether that challenge is correct or not). |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
"Mizter T" wrote
So, for the sake of clarity, can we confirm that a 'Boundary Zone' ticket can also be used with a *Day* Travelcard - as the 'Boundary Zone' ticket is not in fact technically a separate ticket, merely a receipt for an additional fare? Yes, indeed I can confirm that. I do it regularly when I visit London for 'leisure' (railway enthusiasm) purposes; I have often bought more than one such BZ ticket on the same day. Sometimes I extend 'normal' Day Travelcards; on other occasions I extend 'outboundary' Day Travelcards. On Thursday this week, I used a Day Travelcard from Newark [1] and at Victoria I extended it from BZ6 to Bognor Regis. Or at least that's what I asked for at Victoria; I later discovered that I'd been issued a Cheap Day Return from BZ*4* (rather than 6). Can anyone tell me how much extra I paid because of this error? [1] I drove to Newark because Cheap Day Returns and Outboundary Travelcards are not available from Retford. NXEC: *please* do something about this! |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
John Salmon wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote So, for the sake of clarity, can we confirm that a 'Boundary Zone' ticket can also be used with a *Day* Travelcard - as the 'Boundary Zone' ticket is not in fact technically a separate ticket, merely a receipt for an additional fare? Yes, indeed I can confirm that. I do it regularly when I visit London for 'leisure' (railway enthusiasm) purposes; I have often bought more than one such BZ ticket on the same day. Sometimes I extend 'normal' Day Travelcards; on other occasions I extend 'outboundary' Day Travelcards. On Thursday this week, I used a Day Travelcard from Newark [1] and at Victoria I extended it from BZ6 to Bognor Regis. Or at least that's what I asked for at Victoria; I later discovered that I'd been issued a Cheap Day Return from BZ*4* (rather than 6). Can anyone tell me how much extra I paid because of this error? You might have paid less. I recall that SVRs to Cambridge are cheaper from BZ4 than from BZ6 or something like that at the moment. -- Michael Hoffman |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
"Michael Hoffman" wrote John Salmon wrote: "Mizter T" wrote So, for the sake of clarity, can we confirm that a 'Boundary Zone' ticket can also be used with a *Day* Travelcard - as the 'Boundary Zone' ticket is not in fact technically a separate ticket, merely a receipt for an additional fare? Yes, indeed I can confirm that. I do it regularly when I visit London for 'leisure' (railway enthusiasm) purposes; I have often bought more than one such BZ ticket on the same day. Sometimes I extend 'normal' Day Travelcards; on other occasions I extend 'outboundary' Day Travelcards. On Thursday this week, I used a Day Travelcard from Newark [1] and at Victoria I extended it from BZ6 to Bognor Regis. Or at least that's what I asked for at Victoria; I later discovered that I'd been issued a Cheap Day Return from BZ*4* (rather than 6). Can anyone tell me how much extra I paid because of this error? You might have paid less. I recall that SVRs to Cambridge are cheaper from BZ4 than from BZ6 or something like that at the moment. Interesting. How are these extension fares calculated? |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
JB wrote
stop at East Croydon). But the ticket office at the FCC station told me I was better getting a Boundary 6 to Redhill. I did ponder whether it was a valid combination for NCOC 19, but if you are saying that it is not a combination, but should be considered one ticket, that makes sense. *location removed as I wouldn't want the FCC station to get into trouble for suggesting cheaper tickets. All National Rail ticket officers are supposed to suggest a cheaper ticket if such exists and, eg, Which? will sic their mystery shoppers on them and berate them if they fail. Multiple tickets can be suggested too but are not required know-how. -- Mike D |
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FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
In article
, Mizter T writes So, for the sake of clarity, can we confirm that a 'Boundary Zone' ticket can also be used with a *Day* Travelcard - as the 'Boundary Zone' ticket is not in fact technically a separate ticket, merely a receipt for an additional fare? Yes. However, I believe that for some cases the additional payment is different for day and period travelcards. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
Can you still buy FCC U12 tickets? They seem to have been dropped as far as Cambridge at least is concerned. When I enquired of 'one' they blamed FCC, who set the fares to London. Apparently you can. Cambridge - U12 is showing as £34.40 First Day Single, £21.50 Standard Day Single, and £33.10 Standard Day Return. HTH, Barry |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
All National Rail ticket officers are supposed to suggest a cheaper ticket if such exists and, eg, Which? will sic their mystery shoppers on them and berate them if they fail. They are required to offer the cheapest *available* through ticket for the journey being made. However, that doesn't mean that staff are expected to know every possible set of tickets for a given journey. ;) It also depends on what Ticket Issuing System that station uses. Cubic FasTIS, for example, will show Travelcards where appropriate, in addition to point to point tickets, whereas other TIS will only show the point to point ones. Having said that, Colin's example of Cambridge to Putney doesn't require rocket science to work out that a Travelcard is cheaper... Cheers, Barry |
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On 19 Apr, 22:11, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
Cambridge don't do that then. Try a Cambridge-Putney cheap day return from their machines and they will only offer a CDR at £17.15 (with Network Card discount). They should offer a day travelcard at £15.85 of course. I've complained to NXEA but the reply completely missed my point and the follow-up has so far gone unanswered. I've not noticed any change. -- Colin Rosenstiel- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The reference wasto *ticket office staff*, not ticket *machines*...... |
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Colin Rosenstiel wrote All National Rail ticket officers are supposed to suggest a cheaper ticket if such exists and, eg, Which? will sic their mystery shoppers on them and berate them if they fail. Cambridge don't do that then. Try a Cambridge-Putney cheap day return from their machines and they will only offer a CDR at £17.15 (with Network Card discount). They should offer a day travelcard at £15.85 of course. I've complained to NXEA but the reply completely missed my point and the follow-up has so far gone unanswered. I've not noticed any change. A ticket machine isn't a ticket office - what does the ticket office offer ? But if a ODTC is uniformly better then you have a point and Ofrail and Which? may be interested in correcting the rule. In the spirit of the requirement, local SWT machines don't offer CDRs to U12 because a ODTC is never more expensive. -- Mike D |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
Barry Salter wrote They are required to offer the cheapest *available* through ticket for the journey being made. However, that doesn't mean that staff are expected to know every possible set of tickets for a given journey. ;) As I said and you snipped "Multiple tickets can be suggested too but are not required know-how." It also depends on what Ticket Issuing System that station uses. Cubic FasTIS, for example, will show Travelcards where appropriate, in addition to point to point tickets, whereas other TIS will only show the point to point ones. So how would a CDR+ODTC ticket be issued if it isn't shown ? Having said that, Colin's example of Cambridge to Putney doesn't require rocket science to work out that a Travelcard is cheaper... And as it is "one ticket" the spirit of the rule requires it to be offered, even "from their machines" as in Colin's example -- Mike D |
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On Apr 20, 7:20*pm, James Farrar wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 04:29:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Because it takes up less space. There's a certain irony in you posting that twice ;) :) I noticed that - the first click didn't seem to work (at the time of posting), and the second click happened 5 seconds later (and not 7 minutes as the system claimed, although I've since taken care of that by removing the second post). That's Safari + Google Groups for you! |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On 20 Apr, 10:41, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , (Barry Salter) wrote: Colin Rosenstiel wrote: Can you still buy FCC U12 tickets? They seem to have been dropped as far as Cambridge at least is concerned. When I enquired of 'one' they blamed FCC, who set the fares to London. Apparently you can. Cambridge - U12 is showing as £34.40 First Day Single, £21.50 Standard Day Single, and £33.10 Standard Day Return. But no CDR or Saver Return (the abolition that got me started) I guess that FCC might wish to push those who would otherwise buy a CDR onto buying a Cambridge to London inclusive Day Travelcard - wouldn't that bring them in more money? Anyway, you know the drill - blah di blah di blah Oyster, and stuff FCC. |
FCC (GN) Z6 Boundary Extension Ticketing
On 20 Apr, 01:30, "Clive D. W. Feather" cl...@on-the- train.demon.co.uk wrote: In article , Mizter T writes So, for the sake of clarity, can we confirm that a 'Boundary Zone' ticket can also be used with a *Day* Travelcard - as the 'Boundary Zone' ticket is not in fact technically a separate ticket, merely a receipt for an additional fare? Yes. However, I believe that for some cases the additional payment is different for day and period travelcards. That I did not know. Wow, it just gets more and more complicated! |
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