Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good
start.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams" wrote:

Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good
start.

He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other
road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them.

Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff to be
quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn
since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster!

Chris

On May 14, 8:53*pm, "Chris Read" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote:
Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

Will First never learn? *In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. *Not a good
start.

He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other
road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them.

No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I
can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid
more for coping with them.

Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that
is independent of the shape of the bus.

And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked
by them.


Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff to be
quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn
since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster!

But why should we accept that the choice is between bendys and
Routemasters? I'm sure I remember a few generations of other designs
in between and since ...

MIG wrote:

No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I
can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid
more for coping with them.

Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that
is independent of the shape of the bus.

And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked
by them.

Constantly? Where?

Personally, they're just a bloody bus, I don't detest or like them any
more than any other bus and regard the way whole furore became the only
transport issue ever debated as completely inexplicable.

My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their
natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming
average bus life in London as being about ten years, but bendies serving
intensive routes may tire faster and I doubt there's a political
appetite for spending cash on refurbishment). The replacements should
be trams which have the advantages of high capacity and speed of
boarding and add greater attraction to switching motorists zero local
emissions. The replacements will probably be large numbers of
conventional double deckers.

Tom

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:23:19PM +0100, Tom Barry wrote:

My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their
natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming
average bus life in London as being about ten years ...

apart from Routemasters, of course, which were still going strong after
as near as damnit 50 years - yes, admittedly with a couple of major
refurbs and with regular maintenance, but the only reason that a modern
bus wouldn't last 50 years if looked after would be because it's a crap
bus built down to a price instead of built to do the job properly.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than
by drinking alcohol. -- W C Fields

"Tom Barry" wrote in message
...
MIG wrote:

No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I
can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid
more for coping with them.

Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that
is independent of the shape of the bus.

And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked
by them.

Constantly? Where?

Personally, they're just a bloody bus, I don't detest or like them any
more than any other bus and regard the way whole furore became the only
transport issue ever debated as completely inexplicable.

My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their
natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming
average bus life in London as being about ten years, but bendies serving
intensive routes may tire faster

Or more likely, London rejects will be inflicted on places like Leeds,
Glasgow, Manchester, etc., as has happened with double deckers when Ken &
successor decide they are too old for London.

Bevan

On Sat, 17 May 2008 20:14:58 +0100, "Bevan Price"
meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom wrote:


"Tom Barry" wrote in message
...

My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their
natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming
average bus life in London as being about ten years, but bendies serving
intensive routes may tire faster

Or more likely, London rejects will be inflicted on places like Leeds,
Glasgow, Manchester, etc., as has happened with double deckers when Ken &
successor decide they are too old for London.

Very unlikely as none of them are owned by the big groups so they won't
cascade via that route. They are all leased and may end up almost
anywhere but given the three door layout it's most probable they'll end
up doing airport transfers or similar. If they can be converted to two
door then they may have more utility for other UK operators.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 17 May, 20:14, "Bevan Price" meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom wrote:
"Tom Barry" wrote in message

...



MIG wrote:

No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I
can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid
more for coping with them.

Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that
is independent of the shape of the bus.

And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked
by them.

Constantly? Where?

Personally, they're just a bloody bus, I don't detest or like them any
more than any other bus and regard the way whole furore became the only
transport issue ever debated as completely inexplicable.

My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their
natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming
average bus life in London as being about ten years, but bendies serving
intensive routes may tire faster

Or more likely, London rejects will be inflicted on places like Leeds,
Glasgow, Manchester, etc., as has happened with double deckers when Ken &
successor decide they are too old for London.

Bevan

Yey yet more passed it buses

On Wed, 14 May 2008 13:20:18 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote:

On May 14, 8:53*pm, "Chris Read" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote:
Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

Will First never learn? *In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. *Not a good
start.

He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other
road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them.

No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I
can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid
more for coping with them.

I don't think anyone honestly knows what passengers think about bendy
buses. People from both sides of the debate cling to bits of comment,
political campaigns and anything else that gets said to justify their
respective positions. I think I've read ever possible "for and against"
argument there is.

I like bendy buses and I think they do have a role in a busy bus network
like London's. I don't expect many here to agree with me but hey!

Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that
is independent of the shape of the bus.

I don't think London operators care very much one way or the other as
they are simply contractors. TfL pick up the tab overall - the operators
only really carry the day to day safety and operational risks. Farebox
revenue risk is with TfL.

Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff to be
quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn
since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster!

But why should we accept that the choice is between bendys and
Routemasters? I'm sure I remember a few generations of other designs
in between and since ...

Well yes there have been intermediate designs over the years but how
many have lasted a full term in use and not been subject to political
shenanigans at some point? I'm struggling to think of one - London
seems to be cursed in having "controversial" bus designs every 10 years
or so that are promoted one minute and scrapped the next. What's the
bet that hybrids are the next victim of that trend. Replacement
Routemaster vs Bendy Buses have completed Scene One of their great stage
act; I dare say we'll move on to Scene Two fairly soon.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:28:42PM +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

I like bendy buses and I think they do have a role in a busy bus network
like London's. I don't expect many here to agree with me but hey!

I think they do too, just not on the routes they're currently on
(actually I'm only really familiar with the 38 and 73, and then only as
far east as Holborn).

They'd do better on routes that run along major roads without too many
junctions, such as along the Embankment or Euston Road, or out to
Heathrow. Where they're not suitable is on twisty high-frequency routes
where they block junctions and have difficulty getting around parked
vehicles.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

Your call is important to me. To see if it's important to
you I'm going to make you wait on hold for five minutes
before putting you through to Dave's mobile. This call will
be recorded for quality and amusement purposes.