On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:23:19PM +0100, Tom Barry wrote:

My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their
natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming
average bus life in London as being about ten years ...

apart from Routemasters, of course, which were still going strong after
as near as damnit 50 years - yes, admittedly with a couple of major
refurbs and with regular maintenance, but the only reason that a modern
bus wouldn't last 50 years if looked after would be because it's a crap
bus built down to a price instead of built to do the job properly.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than
by drinking alcohol. -- W C Fields

Tom Barry wrote:

In what sense does this differ from Underground trains with transverse
seating, the Overground 378s (ditto) and modern light rail vehicles like
Tramlink's (quoted capacity 208, which certainly isn't all seated)?
It's something of a mistake to see bendy buses as merely a bigger bus,
they're more akin to large-scale people movers where some standing at
peak times is designed in, in return for speed of pickup/setdown.

They're a European design for European style operations, i.e. that the
sole purpose of buses is to move a large number of people from
somewhere away from a rapid transit rail system to a station on said
rail system as quickly as possible. They're less suited to long UK-
style "sit-down" suburb to city journeys, but are pretty much
perfectly suited to central London operations like the Red Arrows.

Neil

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:28:42PM +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

I like bendy buses and I think they do have a role in a busy bus network
like London's. I don't expect many here to agree with me but hey!

I think they do too, just not on the routes they're currently on
(actually I'm only really familiar with the 38 and 73, and then only as
far east as Holborn).

They'd do better on routes that run along major roads without too many
junctions, such as along the Embankment or Euston Road, or out to
Heathrow. Where they're not suitable is on twisty high-frequency routes
where they block junctions and have difficulty getting around parked
vehicles.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

Your call is important to me. To see if it's important to
you I'm going to make you wait on hold for five minutes
before putting you through to Dave's mobile. This call will
be recorded for quality and amusement purposes.

On 15 May, 11:47, Neil Williams wrote:
Tom Barry wrote:
In what sense does this differ from Underground trains with transverse
seating, the Overground 378s (ditto) and modern light rail vehicles like
Tramlink's (quoted capacity 208, which certainly isn't all seated)?
It's something of a mistake to see bendy buses as merely a bigger bus,
they're more akin to large-scale people movers where some standing at
peak times is designed in, in return for speed of pickup/setdown.

They're a European design for European style operations, i.e. that the
sole purpose of buses is to move a large number of people from
somewhere away from a rapid transit rail system to a station on said
rail system as quickly as possible. *They're less suited to long UK-
style "sit-down" suburb to city journeys, but are pretty much
perfectly suited to central London operations like the Red Arrows.

The operations but not the windy, narrow roads. When I cycle I often
find myself at places like St Pauls trying to get past overlapping
521s which are managing to block both lanes of the road while
diagonally enclosing areas of empty space that nothing can drive into,
but leaving too few inches of space at at least one point for a even a
bike to squeeze past.

On May 15, 11:53 am, MIG wrote:
The operations but not the windy, narrow roads. When I cycle I often
find myself at places like St Pauls trying to get past overlapping
521s which are managing to block both lanes of the road while
diagonally enclosing areas of empty space that nothing can drive into,
but leaving too few inches of space at at least one point for a even a
bike to squeeze past.

Ah, you're a cyclist. Suddenly it all becomes clear...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 15 May, 12:10, John B wrote:
On May 15, 11:53 am, MIG wrote:

The operations but not the windy, narrow roads. *When I cycle I often
find myself at places like St Pauls trying to get past overlapping
521s which are managing to block both lanes of the road while
diagonally enclosing areas of empty space that nothing can drive into,
but leaving too few inches of space at at least one point for a even a
bike to squeeze past.

Ah, you're a cyclist. Suddenly it all becomes clear...

I'm also a bus passenger and pedestrian (crosser-of-roads) at various
times, during which I find that bendy buses are disadvantageous to me
compared with other kinds of buses, even if they are preferable to
cars and vans.

That is, bus drivers may be less likely than van drivers to block
pedestrian crossings, but bendy buses are more likely to do so than
other buses.

To answer an earlier question, I have come up against this problem in
Oxford Street, High Holborn, Regent Street, Trafalgar Square ...

(By the way, I don't think you can define a person by a thing they do
sometimes [or by what they eat or their hair colour ...].)

On May 15, 1:05 pm, MIG wrote:
That is, bus drivers may be less likely than van drivers to block
pedestrian crossings, but bendy buses are more likely to do so than
other buses.

Thats down to bad drivers, not the bus itself. Using that logic all
HGVs should be replaced by 7.5 tonners. As an occasional bus user I
much prefer bendy buses - they're easy to get on and off and theres
usually plenty of room. Not so on a double decker trying to scoop up
the same amount of people and thats before you have to worry about old
grannies trying to clamber up and down the hopelessly narrow stairway.

B2003

On 15 May, 16:55, Boltar wrote:
On May 15, 1:05 pm, MIG wrote:

That is, bus drivers may be less likely than van drivers to block
pedestrian crossings, but bendy buses are more likely to do so than
other buses.

Thats down to bad drivers, not the bus itself. Using that logic all
HGVs should be replaced by 7.5 tonners. As an occasional bus user I
much prefer bendy buses - they're easy to get on and off and theres
usually plenty of room. Not so on a double decker trying to scoop up
the same amount of people and thats before you have to worry about old
grannies trying to clamber up and down the hopelessly narrow stairway.

In order to obey the Highway Code, a bendy bus driver has the more
difficult task of judging whether there is (or is about to be) a full
bendy length of space beyond a crossing or junction. The difficulty
of the judgement is increased by the type of bus.

If they misjudge, they block the crossing or junction. If they judge
correctly (or overcompensate), they will often have to wait through
another cycle of lights even though a double decker (or whatever
vehicle is trapped behind) could have legitimately gone through and
reached the next bus stop while the bendy is now stuck at the next red.

On May 15, 5:18 pm, MIG wrote:
In order to obey the Highway Code, a bendy bus driver has the more
difficult task of judging whether there is (or is about to be) a full
bendy length of space beyond a crossing or junction. The difficulty
of the judgement is increased by the type of bus.

Like I said , its down to the driver. HGV drivers can just the space
correctly (most of the time) because they're well trained. If a bus
driver can't (or doesn't care if he blocks the junction) then either
their training leaves something to be desired or they're not suitable
for the job in the first place.

B2003

On Thu, 15 May 2008 00:57 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good
start.

Don't First run one of the Routemaster heritage routes?

Yes the 9.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!