Mizter T wrote:
On 21 Sep, 15:30, "Recliner" wrote:
"Matthew Dickinson" wrote:
First Great Western will accept Oyster Pay As You Go at all stations
between Paddington and West Drayton or Greenford from the 21st
September, according to a leaflet I picked up at Ealing Broadway
yesterday. The fares and peak periods will be the same as for the
tube.

They accepted mine from Ealing Broadway on Heathrow Connect on Thursday.
The guard had a reader to confirm I had some credit on the card.

As a matter of interest, how do you get charged on a pre-pay Oyster card
if the journey involves both NR and LU, with an out of barrier change --
eg, if you take FGW from, say, Ealing Broadway to Paddington, then
change to the Circle from Paddington to, say, Baker Street? ....

In scenarios such as that which you describe, you are only charged
once for the whole journey - the segment from Paddington to Baker
Street is merely counted as a continuation of your journey. This
applies at locations where there are out-of-station interchanges (OOSI
- we have sometimes referred to them here as 'outerchanges'!), though
that term is potentially confusing when one doesn't actually leave the
station, one just exits through an automatic gate, crosses a
concourse, drops down some stairs and then enters another gate.

And it works. £2.50 charge shown on exit at Paddington; no extra charge
for continuation to Westminster.

Colin McKenzie


--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the
population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

On 21 Sep, 23:19, Colin McKenzie wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

On 21 Sep, 15:30, "Recliner" wrote:

"Matthew Dickinson" wrote:
First Great Western will accept Oyster Pay As You Go at all stations
between Paddington and *West Drayton or Greenford from the 21st
September, according to a leaflet I picked up at Ealing Broadway
yesterday. The fares and peak periods will be the same as for the
tube.

They accepted mine from Ealing Broadway on Heathrow Connect on Thursday.
The guard had a reader to confirm I had some credit on the card.

FGW (and Heathrow Connect) have accepted Oyster PAYG for journeys
between Greenford, Ealing Broadway and Paddington since May - but
*not* at intermediate stations on the Greenford line, nor at stations
any further west than Ealing Broadway. See Mr Dickinson's post here
from the time:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....60143b1829fb83

(Incidentally, before FGW started accepted Oyster PAYG for journeys to/
from Paddington, they were accepting it for journeys between Greenford
and Ealing Broadway but not at intermediate stations).

So with regards to your journey from Ealing B'way to Paddington,
Oyster PAYG acceptance is nothing brand new (though it is relatively
new).



As a matter of interest, how do you get charged on a pre-pay Oyster card
if the journey involves both NR and LU, with an out of barrier change -- *
eg, if you take FGW from, say, Ealing Broadway to Paddington, then
change to the Circle from Paddington to, say, Baker Street? ....

In scenarios such as that which you describe, you are only charged
once for the whole journey - the segment from Paddington to Baker
Street is merely counted as a continuation of your journey. This
applies at locations where there are out-of-station interchanges (OOSI
- we have sometimes referred to them here as 'outerchanges'!), though
that term is potentially confusing when one doesn't actually leave the
station, one just exits through an automatic gate, crosses a
concourse, drops down some stairs and then enters another gate.

And it works. £2.50 charge shown on exit at Paddington; no extra charge
for continuation to Westminster.


Just as it should. This is no different from the situation if one
arrives by NR train at Euston from (say) Harrow & Wealdstone, or at
Marylebone from (say) Amersham, or Liverpool Street from Stratford, or
Kings Cross from Finsbury Park etc etc - in all of these cases (and
many others) where one must exit and re-enter through gates the Oyster
system merely counts it as a continuation of the original journey.

(And I'm pretty sure that Marylebone NR and Baker Street LU are tied
together as being a valid OOSI, and I think this is also the case with
regards to Fenchurch Street NR and Tower Hill LU - though annoyingly
Paddington NR and Lancaster Gate LU is not an OOSI.)

On Sep 21, 11:57*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 21 Sep, 23:19, Colin McKenzie wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
On 21 Sep, 15:30, "Recliner" wrote:

"Matthew Dickinson" wrote:
First Great Western will accept Oyster Pay As You Go at all stations
between Paddington and *West Drayton or Greenford from the 21st
September, according to a leaflet I picked up at Ealing Broadway
yesterday. The fares and peak periods will be the same as for the
tube.

They accepted mine from Ealing Broadway on Heathrow Connect on Thursday..
The guard had a reader to confirm I had some credit on the card.

FGW (and Heathrow Connect) have accepted Oyster PAYG for journeys
between Greenford, Ealing Broadway and Paddington since May - but
*not* at intermediate stations on the Greenford line, nor at stations
any further west than Ealing Broadway. See Mr Dickinson's post here
from the time:http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....g/4760143b1829...

(Incidentally, before FGW started accepted Oyster PAYG for journeys to/
from Paddington, they were accepting it for journeys between Greenford
and Ealing Broadway but not at intermediate stations).

So with regards to your journey from Ealing B'way to Paddington,
Oyster PAYG acceptance is nothing brand new (though it is relatively
new).







As a matter of interest, how do you get charged on a pre-pay Oyster card
if the journey involves both NR and LU, with an out of barrier change -- *
eg, if you take FGW from, say, Ealing Broadway to Paddington, then
change to the Circle from Paddington to, say, Baker Street? ....

In scenarios such as that which you describe, you are only charged
once for the whole journey - the segment from Paddington to Baker
Street is merely counted as a continuation of your journey. This
applies at locations where there are out-of-station interchanges (OOSI
- we have sometimes referred to them here as 'outerchanges'!), though
that term is potentially confusing when one doesn't actually leave the
station, one just exits through an automatic gate, crosses a
concourse, drops down some stairs and then enters another gate.

And it works. £2.50 charge shown on exit at Paddington; no extra charge
for continuation to Westminster.

Just as it should. This is no different from the situation if one
arrives by NR train at Euston from (say) Harrow & Wealdstone, or at
Marylebone from (say) Amersham, or Liverpool Street from Stratford, or
Kings Cross from Finsbury Park etc etc - in all of these cases (and
many others) where one must exit and re-enter through gates the Oyster
system merely counts it as a continuation of the original journey.

This kind of progress and integration more and more shows up the
unfairness and illogic of buses still charging per vehicle instead of
per journey.

After 1900 and at the weekends I can make a journey across London on
three different systems: NR, LU and DLR, that is cheaper than catching
two buses, let alone how many it would take to cover the same distance
in a slower and less comfortable way.

RPM wrote:
On Sep 21, 5:56 pm, Barry Salter wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

[Oyster]

Is there no chance that the Fujitsu Star system could be adapted
to deal with it? And I forget - any idea which system Southern
have at their ticket offices?
As far as I'm aware, neither Star, Tribute nor Shere Smart (which
is what FCC and Southern use) can be modified for Oyster.

That apparently is the case but it is hard to see why those systems
can't be made Oyster compatible when they managed it with APTIS. (The
add-on was called APTIS-ANT IIRC) perhaps the functionality required
then was more starightforward than what is needed now.

I think it's to do with spare connectivity, or lack thereof, on the
PC-based TIS. If memory serves, the APTIS ANT (AAU) connected to the
"Tally Roll" socket on the back of APTIS.

One feature of the AAU, which handheld readers don't have, was that it
could tell you which "fare stage" you'd touched in at on a bus. (That
is, of course, assuming the Driver was advancing fare stages properly on
the ticket machine, which most don't).

I think some TOCs are installing/have installed FasTIS at stations
that need to issue Oyster, regardless of the tiscket system used
elsewhere on the TOC.

As I say, I *think* it involves much messing around for non-FasTIS using
stations, but I have yet to observe procedures at such a Ticket Office.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me to have the ticket issued "normally"
on the station TIS for revenue purposes, then loaded onto the Oyster via
FasTIS+, with the original paper ticket non-issued by the FasTIS to
maintain a zero balance on the machine.

Cheers,

Barry

"Mizter T" wrote in message

On 21 Sep, 15:30, "Recliner" wrote:

"Matthew Dickinson" wrote:

First Great Western will accept Oyster Pay As You Go at all stations
between Paddington and West Drayton or Greenford from the 21st
September, according to a leaflet I picked up at Ealing Broadway
yesterday. The fares and peak periods will be the same as for the
tube.

As a matter of interest, how do you get charged on a pre-pay Oyster
card if the journey involves both NR and LE, with an out of barrier
change -- eg, if you take FGW from, say, Ealing Broadway to
Paddington, then change to the Circle from Paddington to, say, Baker
Street? Is it treated as a single zone 1-3 journey, or a zone 1-3
plus a zone 1 journey? And, presumably, the same rule applies with
other operators, such as Chiltern or even London Overground?


I presume that "LE" is a typo for LU.

Yes, sorry, I did mean LU.


In scenarios such as that which you describe, you are only charged
once for the whole journey - the segment from Paddington to Baker
Street is merely counted as a continuation of your journey. This
applies at locations where there are out-of-station interchanges (OOSI
- we have sometimes referred to them here as 'outerchanges'!), though
that term is potentially confusing when one doesn't actually leave the
station, one just exits through an automatic gate, crosses a
concourse, drops down some stairs and then enters another gate.

Thanks, that's what I hoped, but hadn't got round to trying it for
myself yet.

MIG wrote
[...]
Kings Cross from Finsbury Park etc etc - in all of these cases (and
many others) where one must exit and re-enter through gates the
Oyster
system merely counts it as a continuation of the original journey.

This kind of progress and integration more and more shows up the
unfairness and illogic of buses still charging per vehicle instead of
per journey.

After 1900 and at the weekends I can make a journey across London on
three different systems: NR, LU and DLR, that is cheaper than catching
two buses, let alone how many it would take to cover the same distance
in a slower and less comfortable way.

Given the £3.00 Bus cap this isn't a big deal.

However the problem will be rather more visible when tube 9:30-16:00
counts as Off-peak from January 2009 :

==
http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...eleaseid=18677
Visitors and Londoners on lower incomes will also benefit from the
introduction of a new daytime off-peak and reduced fare on the Tube,
from 9.30am to 4.00pm Monday to Friday.
==
but it's difficult to fix without requiring bus interchangers to touch
out and/ or effectively charging extra when a bus journey took more
than 60 minutes or you didn't touch in on another within 30 minutes.
Using a "2 hour for the journey" rule like the tube have be much the
same problem given the large variance in timing for journeys by bus.



--
Mike D

On 22 Sep, 16:32, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
MIG wrote
* * * * [...]

Kings Cross from Finsbury Park etc etc - in all of these cases (and
many others) where one must exit and re-enter through gates the
Oyster
system merely counts it as a continuation of the original journey.
This kind of progress and integration more and more shows up the

unfairness and illogic of buses still charging per vehicle instead of
per journey.

After 1900 and at the weekends I can make a journey across London on

three different systems: NR, LU and DLR, that is cheaper than catching
two buses, let alone how many it would take to cover the same distance
in a slower and less comfortable way.

Given the £3.00 Bus cap this isn't a big deal.

It's currently double the price for the slow, uncomfortable journey,
when the quick and easy version is £1.50.

I am often in the situation where I've had to make a DLR/LU journey in
the morning peak, with no chance of hitting the peak cap, and make the
return by two buses if it's before 1900, but much quicker by LU/DLR if
it's after 1900, saving 30p each time (and potentially up to £1.50 a
day, depending on how many buses). It soon adds up.

(And the buses I have to use before 1900 are generally more
overcrowded than the trains I'd be using otherwise.)


However the problem will be rather more visible when tube 9:30-16:00
counts as Off-peak from January 2009 :

==http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=18677
Visitors and Londoners on lower incomes will also benefit from the
introduction of a new daytime off-peak and reduced fare on the Tube,
from 9.30am to 4.00pm Monday to Friday.
==
*but it's difficult to fix without requiring bus interchangers to touch
out and/ or effectively charging extra when a bus journey took more
than 60 minutes or you didn't touch in on another within 30 minutes.
Using a "2 hour for the journey" rule like the tube have be much the
same problem given the large variance in timing for journeys by bus.

There certainly are problems, particularly now that the pay per
vehicle rule is imbedded, but there are systems around the world that
deal with it, and also integrate bus and metro systems as part of a
single journey.

There are plenty of excuses for how it currently works, but they don't
make it fair or logical.