Surprised the increase to £50 (£25 if paid within 3 weeks) on TfL services
hasn't been mentioned:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/10025.aspx

I wonder if mainline rail, regional trams, and the TW Metro etc will follow?

Paul S

On 11 Oct, 17:32, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Surprised the increase to £50 (£25 if paid within 3 weeks) on TfL services
hasn't been mentioned:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/10025.aspx

I wonder if mainline rail, regional trams, and the TW Metro etc will follow?

Paul S

Effectively the on-the-spot fine only increases by £5 with the more
severe penalty effective if there is a delay in payment. The press
release suggests this applies to the Overground network so presumably
mainline rail operators will have to follow to avoid anomalies at
joint terminals.

The headline of a £50 fine is somewhat let down by the realisation
that the increase is really only £5.

Jonathan

Am Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:32:03 UTC, schrieb "Paul Scott"
auf uk.railway :

Surprised the increase to £50 (£25 if paid within 3 weeks) on TfL services
hasn't been mentioned:

"This is an increase from the current level of £20 on the Buses,
Tubes, Docklands Light Railway (DLR) and London Overground. "

Well, the Conservatives act as one would expect. Hard, but ruthless.



Cheers,
L.W.

" Willms" wrote in message
...
Am Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:32:03 UTC, schrieb "Paul Scott"
auf uk.railway :

Surprised the increase to £50 (£25 if paid within 3 weeks) on TfL
services
hasn't been mentioned:

"This is an increase from the current level of £20 on the Buses,
Tubes, Docklands Light Railway (DLR) and London Overground. "

Well, the Conservatives act as one would expect. Hard, but ruthless.


Nice try Lüko - the '2008 Act' would have commenced it's progress years
ago...

Paul

Lüko Willms wrote:
Am Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:32:03 UTC, schrieb "Paul Scott"
auf uk.railway :

Surprised the increase to £50 (£25 if paid within 3 weeks) on TfL services
hasn't been mentioned:

"This is an increase from the current level of £20 on the Buses,
Tubes, Docklands Light Railway (DLR) and London Overground. "

Well, the Conservatives act as one would expect. Hard, but ruthless.



Cheers,
L.W.



Brilliant! Does this mean that Brown and his Darling have gone, and
Balls and Cooper are are no longer taking the **** by claiming double
expenses for their housing?

--
Moving things in still pictures!

On Oct 11, 6:58*pm, wrote:
On 11 Oct, 17:32, "Paul Scott" wrote:

Surprised the increase to £50 (£25 if paid within 3 weeks) on TfL services
hasn't been mentioned:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/10025.aspx

I wonder if mainline rail, regional trams, and the TW Metro etc will follow?

Paul S

Effectively the on-the-spot fine only increases by £5 with the more
severe penalty effective if there is a delay in payment. *The press
release suggests this applies to the Overground network so presumably
mainline rail operators will have to follow to avoid anomalies at
joint terminals.

The headline of a £50 fine is somewhat let down by the realisation
that the increase is really only £5.

Jonathan

It's actually a removal of the right to appeal (useless though that
was).

Also, I note that the article is full of references to fare evasion,
when as I understand it, if fare evasion is suspected, there should be
a prosecution.

So is this really about applying the penalty fare as a genuine fine,
rather than the removal of a discount, in which case is it legal?

It's like ASBOs, a lesser punishment, but one which can be applied
without trial on the assumption of guilty till proven innocent. It's
totally wrong. Fare evaders should be prosecuted, not let off with
£50 "fares".

(Although I suspect that fare evaders won't be touched at all, while
the authorities concentrate on people caught out by Oyster anomalies.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 10:58:09 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Effectively the on-the-spot fine only increases by =A35 with the more
severe penalty effective if there is a delay in payment. The press
release suggests this applies to the Overground network so presumably
mainline rail operators will have to follow to avoid anomalies at
joint terminals.

Or TfL won't be able to at mainline termini. That said, there are
plenty of stations (Milton Keynes Central is one, Euston another)
where PFs apply to one TOC but not another. To determine what should
be charged, "sneaky" questions are usually asked.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams" wrote

there are
plenty of stations (Milton Keynes Central is one, Euston another)
where PFs apply to one TOC but not another. To determine what should
be charged, "sneaky" questions are usually asked.

If you're travelling between Victoria and Gatwick Airport, Southern trains
are subject to a penalty fare regime, but you can buy tickets onboard
Gatwick Express trains. Gatwick Express is now part of Southern.

Peter

On 12 Oct, 12:41, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote

there are
plenty of stations (Milton Keynes Central is one, Euston another)
where PFs apply to one TOC but not another. *To determine what should
be charged, "sneaky" questions are usually asked.

If you're travelling between Victoria and Gatwick Airport, Southern trains
are subject to a penalty fare regime, but you can buy tickets onboard
Gatwick Express trains. Gatwick Express is now part of Southern.

Peter

Euston is a bit of a red herring given the split of platforms between
gated 8-11 and the other ungated platforms. Milton Keynes can
presumably be checked by the arrival time of trains (given that the
steps from each platform are visible from the gate line).

Similarly, between Gatwick and Redhill, penalty fares aren't going to
be charged on-train on a FGW turbo as the service is not in the scheme
- which means that a RPI isn't going to be on the train [1]. I would
hope that anyone going to the barriers at Redhill without a ticket
having travelled from Gatwick is charged a Penalty Fare regardless of
which train they took.

The whole justification behind penalty fares is the admission that on
most commuter routes not all tickets are going to be checked. On
Gatwick Express you are almost certain to have your ticket checked and
can travel without buying one. On Southern, it is quite possible that
the ticket won't be checked (although actually, Southern guards are
quite good at checking on longer distance services since they aren't
tied to a particular door release point - driver opens doors on a 377
and there is a point for the guard to close the doors in each
carriage) so you have to buy it before travelling.

Jonathan

[1] On a number of occasions, I have seen a whole group of FGW RPIs
carrying out a "ticketless travel survey" on these services but this
doesn't involve Penalty Fares.

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 06:36:25 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Euston is a bit of a red herring given the split of platforms between
gated 8-11 and the other ungated platforms. Milton Keynes can
presumably be checked by the arrival time of trains (given that the
steps from each platform are visible from the gate line).

VT, to be fair, never use 8-11, though LM do in the peaks use the
non-barriered platforms, and there is never a grip on arrival at
these. Similarly, the policy at Euston seems to be that if two trains
arrive at once the barriers are opened, as to do otherwise results in
it taking upwards of 5 minutes to get through, which causes problems
with people trying to get to departing trains at the same time.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.