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Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
Like many on these groups, I try not to believe any transport project
is actually happening "until they start digging". So, having been away for a week or so, I was gratified to notice several signs that "Thameslink 2000" (or whatever they're calling it these days) might actually happen. They've started piling at the southern end of Blackfriars railway bridge (by the old bridge supports) - presumably for the second river crossing - and there are hoardings at Farringdon by the north end footbridge, though no signs of actual construction yet. I also noticed a stripy eye-catching "Thameslink Project" information stand at Moorgate - currently empty, but presumably will soon hold "You're not getting any Thameslink trains any more" leaflets... |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
Rupert Candy wrote:
They've started piling at the southern end of Blackfriars railway bridge (by the old bridge supports) - presumably for the second river crossing Not exactly. It's being used for structural inspections between June 23 and December: http://www.pla.co.uk/notice2mariners...lag/2/id/3053/ On the subject of Blackfriars, I believe the building on the SE corner of New Bridge and Queen Victoria Streets will be demolished from next month. and there are hoardings at Farringdon by the north end footbridge, though no signs of actual construction yet. Judging by how long it's taken for the hoardings to go up, it'll be interesting to see if the new bridge will be ready in time. Network Rail seem confident though. I also noticed a stripy eye-catching "Thameslink Project" information stand at Moorgate - currently empty, but presumably will soon hold "You're not getting any Thameslink trains any more" leaflets... Close enough. If thameslinkprogramme.co.uk is anything to go by, it'll be more like 'Take a deep breath. We can't stop at Barbican and Moorgate any more' You can also add the Herne Hill siding and Luton Airport Parkway/Mill Hill Broadway platform extensions to your list... |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
In message , at 14:26:34 on Sun, 19
Oct 2008, Sky Rider remarked: You can also add the Herne Hill siding and Luton Airport Parkway/Mill Hill Broadway platform extensions to your list... The L_A_P platform looked pretty much finished when I trundled through last week. More than you can say for EM Parkway. -- Roland Perry |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
I'll also add the comment it ain't called Thameslink 2000 any
more .... it is Thameslink Project. -- Nick |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
In uk.railway Sky Rider wrote:
You can also add the Herne Hill siding and Luton Airport Parkway/Mill Hill Broadway platform extensions to your list... And the concrete trough between Gasworks and Copenhagen tunnels built as part of the CTRL works to connect the ECML to SPILL. And clearance for the new stabling sidings at Cambridge (not sure if that's Thameslink or just somewhere to put the '1300' carriages). Theo |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
D7666 wrote:
I'll also add the comment it ain't called Thameslink 2000 any more .... it is Thameslink Project. -- Nick Thameslink Programme, actually! /pedant Cheers Steve M |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
Roland Perry wrote:
The L_A_P platform looked pretty much finished when I trundled through last week. More than you can say for EM Parkway. The TLP inauguration was marked by a ceremony at LTN, so it's offically taken just shy of a year to build them (only minor works outstanding now). Then again, the % of that year actually involving work (minute for minute) is rather small, and in all likelihood only red tape would prevent the extensions from coming into use anytime before the Winter 08/09 service, seeing as it should take nowhere near as long as 8 weeks to complete the outstanding tasks. |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
On Oct 19, 5:27 pm, Steve M wrote:
D7666 wrote: I'll also add the comment it ain't called Thameslink 2000 any more .... it is Thameslink Project. -- Nick Thameslink Programme, actually! /pedant Cheers Steve M d'oh |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
In message
, at 08:35:20 on Sun, 19 Oct 2008, D7666 remarked: I'll also add the comment it ain't called Thameslink 2000 any more .... it is Thameslink Project. Thameslink 2012 seems like the best name for it. -- Roland Perry |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 08:35:20 on Sun, 19 Oct 2008, D7666 remarked: I'll also add the comment it ain't called Thameslink 2000 any more .... it is Thameslink Project. Thameslink 2012 seems like the best name for it. A good chunk of the work in the central core will be done by then, allowing for 16 tph 12 car services, but most of the platform work at London Bridge, and all of the approach trackwork east of there, eg Bermondsey and Tanner's Hill, isn't planned to start until the end of 2012, with completion by 2015... Thameslink '2/3' in 2012 then, aka KO1... Paul |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
On 19 Oct, 21:44, Roland Perry wrote:
Thameslink 2012 seems like the best name for it. The most significant parts of it don't happen until 2012-15 (rebuilding London Bridge and adding flyovers on its approaches, wiring up the ECML connection, and replacing the whole fleet), so you'd probably want to call it Thameslink 2015*. (* unless you're in the camp who thinks the second phase won't happen, which I've been pondering joining) U |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
On Oct 19, 2:26*pm, Sky Rider wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote: They've started piling at the southern end of Blackfriars railway bridge (by the old bridge supports) - presumably for the second river crossing Not exactly. It's being used for structural inspections between June 23 and December:http://www.pla.co.uk/notice2mariners...lag/2/id/3053/ Ah, not quite as concrete as I thought then! You can also add the Herne Hill siding and Luton Airport Parkway/Mill Hill Broadway platform extensions to your list... Yes, I pass the Herne Hill siding every day so I'd overlooked that. Though it remains to be seen whether that will be used for the KO0 timetable. |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
In article ,
(Theo Markettos) wrote: In uk.railway Sky Rider wrote: You can also add the Herne Hill siding and Luton Airport Parkway/Mill Hill Broadway platform extensions to your list... And the concrete trough between Gasworks and Copenhagen tunnels built as part of the CTRL works to connect the ECML to SPILL. And clearance for the new stabling sidings at Cambridge (not sure if that's Thameslink or just somewhere to put the '1300' carriages). We're waiting for them to relay and electrify those sidings but I don;t think they are part of the TLP. The extension of platform 1 for 12 cars strictly isn't part of the programme either but it's complete in practice. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:35:20 on Sun, 19 Oct 2008, D7666 remarked: I'll also add the comment it ain't called Thameslink 2000 any more .... it is Thameslink Project. Thameslink 2012 seems like the best name for it. I think "Thameslympink" seems to capture both the 2012 aspect and also the slow progress. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632948.html (43 045 at Reading, 1984) |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
On Oct 20, 8:17*am, Chris Tolley wrote:
I think "Thameslympink" seems to capture both the 2012 aspect and also the slow progress. ....not to mention the colour scheme of the 'vibrant' refurbishment of the 319s... |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
In message
, at 14:35:03 on Sun, 19 Oct 2008, Mr Thant remarked: The most significant parts of it don't happen until 2012-15 (rebuilding London Bridge and adding flyovers on its approaches, wiring up the ECML connection, and replacing the whole fleet), so you'd probably want to call it Thameslink 2015*. (* unless you're in the camp who thinks the second phase won't happen, which I've been pondering joining) Thameslink 2015 it is, then :) I won't believe it's finished until I can get a through train from Cambridge to Gatwick - one of the original attractions of the scheme for me. -- Roland Perry |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 14:35:03 on Sun, 19 Oct 2008, Mr Thant remarked: The most significant parts of it don't happen until 2012-15 (rebuilding London Bridge and adding flyovers on its approaches, wiring up the ECML connection, and replacing the whole fleet), so you'd probably want to call it Thameslink 2015*. (* unless you're in the camp who thinks the second phase won't happen, which I've been pondering joining) Thameslink 2015 it is, then :) I won't believe it's finished until I can get a through train from Cambridge to Gatwick - one of the original attractions of the scheme for me. Not a total pessimist then, they won't believe it's finished until they can get from Littlehampton to Kings Lynn... Paul |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
wrote in message ... In article , (Theo Markettos) wrote: In uk.railway Sky Rider wrote: You can also add the Herne Hill siding and Luton Airport Parkway/Mill Hill Broadway platform extensions to your list... And the concrete trough between Gasworks and Copenhagen tunnels built as part of the CTRL works to connect the ECML to SPILL. And clearance for the new stabling sidings at Cambridge (not sure if that's Thameslink or just somewhere to put the '1300' carriages). We're waiting for them to relay and electrify those sidings but I don;t think they are part of the TLP. The extension of platform 1 for 12 cars strictly isn't part of the programme either but it's complete in practice. There are a few bits in the Greater Anglia RUS which, although not giving much away, suggest it is for train lengthening on the WA route to Liverpool St. Perhaps ready for the 30 new 4 car trains for the route... Paul |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
... In message , at 08:35:20 on Sun, 19 Oct 2008, D7666 remarked: I'll also add the comment it ain't called Thameslink 2000 any more .... it is Thameslink Project. Thameslink 2012 seems like the best name for it. -- Roland Perry Maybe Thameslink 2013, just to be on the safe side! MaxB |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
On Oct 19, 11:04*am, Rupert Candy wrote:
Like many on these groups, I try not to believe any transport project is actually happening "until they start digging". *So, having been away for a week or so, I was gratified to notice several signs that "Thameslink 2000" (or whatever they're calling it these days) might actually happen. *They've started piling at the southern end of Blackfriars railway bridge (by the old bridge supports) - presumably for the second river crossing - and there are hoardings at Farringdon by the north end footbridge, though no signs of actual construction yet. *I also noticed a stripy eye-catching "Thameslink Project" information stand at Moorgate - currently empty, but presumably will soon hold "You're not getting any Thameslink trains any more" leaflets... I think that you naive attitude to how a project is implemented then. Now wonder there are many scew ups when people think that all that is involved in implementing a project is to "dig holes". Of course you can cut corners and just face the consequences when it all goes belly up. Kevin |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
In message , at 11:42:40 on
Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Paul Scott remarked: I won't believe it's finished until I can get a through train from Cambridge to Gatwick - one of the original attractions of the scheme for me. Not a total pessimist then, they won't believe it's finished until they can get from Littlehampton to Kings Lynn... Without changing trains? One of the enigmas about the plans are that there are just three routes north of London, but twelve to the south (including four 'beyond' Gatwick). http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co...loadMedia.asp? MediaDetailsID=1195 -- Roland Perry |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
On Oct 20, 9:51 am, Roland Perry wrote:
you'd probably want to call it Thameslink 2015*. (* unless you're in the camp who thinks the second phase won't happen, which I've been pondering joining) Thameslink 2015 it is, then :) I won't believe it's finished until I can get a through train from Cambridge to Gatwick - one of the original I am now of the opinion you won't. Even though they completed the tunnelling into SPILL I have alwys been sceptical about connecting up GN to it. They are going to all this trouble of re-arranging appoaches to Blackfriars and south/east thereof to avoid as far as possible conflicting moves to make 24 TPH in the core work, and then build a new junction across which every move will conflict right *in* the core ?!?!?!? IMHO as a practical connection the GN was lost when the re-jigged SPILL from being a 4 platform station under KX/SP of pre-Eusostar days to 2-platforms under-SPILL box. With 4 platforms you could dovetail / hold / alternate / regulate around junction, with 2 platforms you cannot. -- Nick |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
In message
, at 04:06:19 on Mon, 20 Oct 2008, D7666 remarked: I won't believe it's finished until I can get a through train from Cambridge to Gatwick - one of the original I am now of the opinion you won't. Even though they completed the tunnelling into SPILL I have alwys been sceptical about connecting up GN to it. They are going to all this trouble of re-arranging appoaches to Blackfriars and south/east thereof to avoid as far as possible conflicting moves to make 24 TPH in the core work, and then build a new junction across which every move will conflict right *in* the core ?!?!?!? Is it a flat junction? I thought the northbound line tunnelled under. -- Roland Perry |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
On Oct 20, 11:56*am, Kev wrote:
On Oct 19, 11:04*am, Rupert Candy wrote: Like many on these groups, I try not to believe any transport project is actually happening "until they start digging". *So, having been away for a week or so, I was gratified to notice several signs that "Thameslink 2000" (or whatever they're calling it these days) might actually happen. *They've started piling at the southern end of Blackfriars railway bridge (by the old bridge supports) - presumably for the second river crossing - and there are hoardings at Farringdon by the north end footbridge, though no signs of actual construction yet. *I also noticed a stripy eye-catching "Thameslink Project" information stand at Moorgate - currently empty, but presumably will soon hold "You're not getting any Thameslink trains any more" leaflets... I think that you naive attitude to how a project is implemented then. Now wonder there are many scew ups when people think that all that is involved in implementing a project is to "dig holes". With respect, I think it's your interpretation of my original post that's naive. By 'dig holes' I meant 'tangible signs of actual construction' as opposed to 'meaningless Government/Evening Standard spin about Crossrail getting green light'. Clearer? (apologies for lack of snipping, posted from mobile phone) |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 11:42:40 on Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Paul Scott remarked: I won't believe it's finished until I can get a through train from Cambridge to Gatwick - one of the original attractions of the scheme for me. Not a total pessimist then, they won't believe it's finished until they can get from Littlehampton to Kings Lynn... Without changing trains? One of the enigmas about the plans are that there are just three routes north of London, but twelve to the south (including four 'beyond' Gatwick). http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co...DetailsID=1195 Just having a dig at the amount of stale information about. The linked map shows early ideas extracted from all the planning documentation, but as captioned, that map is only 'indicative'. The difference south of the river is that an hourly Thameslink service at say Guildford is just an add on to other intensive services, it's a bit different on the northern network, as you say the 3 to 12 is quite noticeable. As regularly discussed here though, the current South London RUS no longer shows the south west parts of the network, eg Littlehampton and Guildford. The Wimbledon loop is also to be turned into a Blackfriars - London Bridge service. This is to avoid too many fast/slow flat crossing moves south of Blackfriars. It is about time NR brought their Thameslink site more up to date... Paul |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
"Batman55" wrote in message ... "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 08:35:20 on Sun, 19 Oct 2008, D7666 remarked: I'll also add the comment it ain't called Thameslink 2000 any more .... it is Thameslink Project. Thameslink 2012 seems like the best name for it. -- Roland Perry Maybe Thameslink 2013, just to be on the safe side! 2015, see earlier posts. Paul S |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
In uk.railway Batman55 twisted the electrons to say:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message Thameslink 2012 seems like the best name for it. Maybe Thameslink 2013, just to be on the safe side! Given how superstition some people are, probably better call it 2014? But hey, that'll give them an extra year of safety margin! -- These opinions might not even be mine ... Let alone connected with my employer ... |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
On Oct 20, 12:06*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Oct 20, 9:51 am, Roland Perry wrote: you'd probably want to call it Thameslink 2015*. (* unless you're in the camp who thinks the second phase won't happen, which I've been pondering joining) Thameslink 2015 it is, then :) *I won't believe it's finished until I can get a through train from Cambridge to Gatwick - one of the original I am now of the opinion you won't. Even though they completed the tunnelling into SPILL I have alwys been sceptical about connecting up GN to it. They are going to all this trouble of re-arranging appoaches to Blackfriars and south/east thereof to avoid as far as possible conflicting moves to make 24 TPH in the core work, and then build a new junction across which every move will conflict right *in* the core ?!?!?!? IMHO as a practical connection the GN was lost when the re-jigged SPILL from being a 4 platform station under KX/SP of pre-Eusostar days to 2-platforms under-SPILL box. With 4 platforms you could dovetail / hold / alternate / regulate around junction, with 2 platforms you cannot. Amusingly, I read in My Onward Serial that DfT are sending those responsible for Thameslink rolling stock procurement to Chatelet-Les Halles in the rush hour to see how it's done-a station with IIRC 6 tracks and 3 island platforms where they can do exactly that. Wasn't there some speculation on here around the time of SPILL opening that the platforms were wide enough to be made into islands if necessary? Obviously at much greater expense than building the thing properly in the first place. |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
"Alistair Gunn" wrote in message ... In uk.railway Batman55 twisted the electrons to say: "Roland Perry" wrote in message Thameslink 2012 seems like the best name for it. Maybe Thameslink 2013, just to be on the safe side! Given how superstition some people are, probably better call it 2014? But hey, that'll give them an extra year of safety margin! 2015 - see earlier posts... Paul S |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 04:06:19 on Mon, 20 Oct 2008, D7666 remarked: I am now of the opinion you won't. Even though they completed the tunnelling into SPILL I have alwys been sceptical about connecting up GN to it. They are going to all this trouble of re-arranging appoaches to Blackfriars and south/east thereof to avoid as far as possible conflicting moves to make 24 TPH in the core work, and then build a new junction across which every move will conflict right *in* the core ?!?!?!? Is it a flat junction? I thought the northbound line tunnelled under. It does dive under - and it is already built, (though track yet to be laid), you can see it dropping down as you leave the northbound StP platform. It ought to be less of an issue in terms of running 24 tph than the flat junction at Blackfriars Paul |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
On Oct 20, 12:11 pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 04:06:19 on Mon, 20 Oct 2008, D7666 remarked: I won't believe it's finished until I can get a through train from Cambridge to Gatwick - one of the original I am now of the opinion you won't. Even though they completed the tunnelling into SPILL I have alwys been sceptical about connecting up GN to it. They are going to all this trouble of re-arranging appoaches to Blackfriars and south/east thereof to avoid as far as possible conflicting moves to make 24 TPH in the core work, and then build a new junction across which every move will conflict right *in* the core ?!?!?!? Is it a flat junction? I thought the northbound line tunnelled under. -- Roland Perry Each switch forms a flat junction on both roads - even if there is no crossing by tunnelling. When running 24 TPH you don't really want any points at all. Don't forget these are long 12 car trains running into or out of the SPILL station stop - and all trains will stop - they ain't going to be high speed across the convergence point. Take the Jubilee line now (before resgignalling). That is planned 24 TPH in the peaks, with trains half that length, and it barely works. Now put in a new junction at say London Bridge, right off the end of platforms of one of the busiest core stations, even with a dive/fly to avoid a crossing, but nonetheless convergence points on both west and eastbound roads. You reckon 24 TPH would still work ? Camden Town and Kennington are similar problematic locations on the Northern - thats why they want to split the servcie and avoid convergences. -- Nick -- Nick |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
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Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
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Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
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Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
On 20 Oct, 12:30, D7666 wrote:
Don't forget these are long 12 car trains running into or out of the SPILL station stop - and all trains will stop - they ain't going to be high speed across the convergence point. But what do you gain by moving the junction to south of the station? The only net effect is a longer allowable dwell time as trains will be able to do some of their waiting (to cross the junction) in a platform rather than in the tunnel to the north. So there's only a need for more than two platforms if you think the dwell time allowed by 24 tph through each platform won't be acceptable, which you could say about all of the central stations. In other words, the junction is irrelevant. U |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
In message , at 12:16:04 on
Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Paul Scott remarked: It is about time NR brought their Thameslink site more up to date... Maybe that's a reasonable target to have for 2012? -- Roland Perry |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
In message
, at 04:30:46 on Mon, 20 Oct 2008, D7666 remarked: When running 24 TPH you don't really want any points at all. Don't forget these are long 12 car trains running into or out of the SPILL station stop - and all trains will stop - they ain't going to be high speed across the convergence point. Those two seem mutually contradictory. There's plenty of time to change the points while each train is stopped in the station. -- Roland Perry |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 12:16:04 on Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Paul Scott remarked: It is about time NR brought their Thameslink site more up to date... Maybe that's a reasonable target to have for 2012? Good one! Even they might know what their final plan is by then, there'll probably have been a decent drawing in Modern Railways by then... Paul |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
On Oct 20, 2:15 pm, Roland Perry wrote:
Don't forget these are long 12 car trains running into or out of the SPILL station stop - and all trains will stop - they ain't going to be high speed across the convergence point. Those two seem mutually contradictory. There's plenty of time to change the points while each train is stopped in the station. When I get some time I shall re-run something on a simulator that shows why a platform stop right next switches either upstream or downstream of a convergance point does reduce theoretical headway be it conventional block or moving block signalling. -- Nick |
Visible signs of Thameslink 2000
In message
, at 03:04:06 on Sun, 19 Oct 2008, Rupert Candy remarked: no signs of actual construction yet. I also noticed a stripy eye-catching "Thameslink Project" information stand at Moorgate Here's a visible sign at Luton Airport Parkway: http://www.perry.co.uk/images/lap-sign.jpg As commented a few months ago, the direct link to St Pancras has been long-awaited... -- Roland Perry |
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