"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 20:08:01 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:08:15 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

According to the latest TfL board minutes, extending PAYG from Hayes &
Harlington to Heathrow Terminals is being studied.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ember-2008.pdf
page 15

It is scheduled for introduction next year - obviously subject to final
agreement with BAA (as per report). I've seen info saying that it
should have been introduced by now!


Another 'special zone' like Watford Junction then? Or could they bring
the route into zone 6...

I've no idea how it will work conceptually. I would expect it to be
charged at a premium rate and also for there to be a "premium" penalty
in case people fail to validate on entry at Heathrow. Where it get's fun
is how you deal with travel to Terminal 5 where only HEX offers the
service.

But inter-terminal journeys are free.

On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 00:55:24 -0000, "John Salmon"
wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 20:08:01 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:08:15 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

According to the latest TfL board minutes, extending PAYG from Hayes &
Harlington to Heathrow Terminals is being studied.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ember-2008.pdf
page 15

It is scheduled for introduction next year - obviously subject to final
agreement with BAA (as per report). I've seen info saying that it
should have been introduced by now!


Another 'special zone' like Watford Junction then? Or could they bring
the route into zone 6...

I've no idea how it will work conceptually. I would expect it to be
charged at a premium rate and also for there to be a "premium" penalty
in case people fail to validate on entry at Heathrow. Where it get's fun
is how you deal with travel to Terminal 5 where only HEX offers the
service.

But inter-terminal journeys are free.

I appreciate that is true for HEX / Connect but it isn't for LU. There
are clear implications about explaining the nuances of PAYG validity and
also ensuring validation equipment is properly located with the right
publicity. Employees of the airport will, I am sure, get used to this
quickly. However irregular travellers and tourists may struggle and
thus it is important to get the details of who does what and how
correct. I assume this will be part of the agreement under
consideration.

Am I correct in assuming that HEX and Heathrow Connect fares are
different but that there is still an effective premium for the Hayes to
Heathrow section on Connect services?

I know that it was not an easy task getting LU's ticketing sorted out
for the T5 station where BAA run the station. This just adds to the
complexity and there will be implications for BAA's own operation.
--
Paul C

Paul Corfield wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that HEX and Heathrow Connect fares are
different but that there is still an effective premium for the Hayes to
Heathrow section on Connect services?


Yup. Cash fares are presently as follows:

Heathrow Express Standard Single: £16.50
Heathrow Express 1st Class Single: £26.00
Heathrow Express Standard Return: £32.00
Heathrow Express 1st Class Return: £50.00

Tickets can be purchased on board for a £3.00 supplement in Standard,
but for the normal price in 1st.

Heathrow Connect Standard Single: £ 6.90
Heathrow Connect Standard Return: £13.80

NB: Penalty Fares apply between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington, and
the Heathrow Connect website alleges that Oyster PAYG is *not* valid on
Heathrow Connect at all!

Paddington - Hayes & Harlington fares:

Anytime 1st Day Single: £ 6.10
Anytime 1st Day Return: £12.20
Anytime Day Single: £ 4.10
Anytime Day Return: £ 7.50
Off-Peak Day Return: £ 5.00
Oyster Peak Single: £ 3.50
Oyster Off-Peak Single: £ 2.00

Hayes & Harlington - Heathrow:

Anytime Day Single: £ 4.90
Anytime Return: £ 9.80

Cheers,

Barry

On Nov 8, 2:19*pm, Barry Salter wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that HEX and Heathrow Connect fares are
different but that there is still an effective premium for the Hayes to
Heathrow section on Connect services?

Yup. Cash fares are presently as follows:

* Heathrow Express Standard Single: £16.50
Heathrow Express 1st Class Single: £26.00
* Heathrow Express Standard Return: £32.00
Heathrow Express 1st Class Return: £50.00

Tickets can be purchased on board for a £3.00 supplement in Standard,
but for the normal price in 1st.

Heathrow Connect Standard Single: £ 6.90
Heathrow Connect Standard Return: £13.80

NB: Penalty Fares apply between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington, and
the Heathrow Connect website alleges that Oyster PAYG is *not* valid on
Heathrow Connect at all!


Is that just an out of date website? The Oystercard website shows
Oyster as valid from West Drayton - Paddington and the Hayes -
Paddington section of the Heathrow Connect is operated on behalf of
First Great Western and is part of the Paddington suburban service
pattern.

On 8 Nov, 09:34, Andy wrote:
Is that just an out of date website?

Yes. The press office definitely thinks they accept PAYG.

the Hayes -
Paddington section of the Heathrow Connect is operated on behalf of
First Great Western

Almost. The trains and the staff (which are owned/employed by
Heathrow Express) are sublet to First Great Western for that part of
the journey.

U

In message , at 10:22:32 on
Sat, 8 Nov 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:

irregular travellers and tourists may struggle

Talking of which, I went through T123 Underground station earlier today,
and the automatic barriers were taped off, with everyone having to take
a scenic tour of the booking office to get to the escalators. It wasn't
clear why, and the station employee I asked looked at me as if was
talking Swahili.

The thing that may have confused "irregular users and tourists" was the
lack of an obvious Oyster ad to touch in. It was recommended we lean
over the tape and use one of the pads on the inoperative gates.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
10:22:32 on Sat, 8 Nov 2008, Paul Corfield
remarked:

irregular travellers and tourists may struggle

Talking of which, I went through T123 Underground station earlier
today, and the automatic barriers were taped off, with everyone
having to take a scenic tour of the booking office to get to the
escalators. It wasn't clear why, and the station employee I asked
looked at me as if was talking Swahili.

The thing that may have confused "irregular users and tourists" was
the lack of an obvious Oyster ad to touch in. It was recommended we
lean over the tape and use one of the pads on the inoperative gates.

Yes, I saw that yesterday when meeting my brother on his way through
London overnight at our mothers on his way from India back home to the US.

Our mother has had to give up driving so we were using the tube to meet
him for the first time for many years. She has a freedom Pass of course
and I had a day travelcard as I was in London for other proposes earlier
in the day.

I got my brother an Oyster card (£1 to Zone 2 instead of £4 cash fare) at
the ticket office then realised when we reached the platform that there
was no Oyster reader anywhere near the route from ticket office to
platform and had to dash back upstairs for him to touch it in. No
apologies for the confusion from staff at all.

Oyster is just what my brother and sister-in-law need as each can use it
when in London (they are rarely there together).

The only snag is how to get auto-top-up. I'm not sure someone can have an
online account without a UK address and the need for travel is probably
too low to justify £20 top-ups (the reason why I don't use auto-top-up).
The convenience might outweigh that for international travellers like
them, though. They also need to be sure which tube station they will hit
first after setting it up. Probably Heathrow Terminals 123 but not certain
at this range. I think they never need to visit the particular tube
station again.

It's a pity you can't just add PAYG credit online.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Nov 9, 1:10*pm, wrote:
In article , (Roland





Perry) wrote:
In message , at
10:22:32 on Sat, 8 Nov 2008, Paul Corfield
remarked:

irregular travellers and tourists may struggle

Talking of which, I went through T123 Underground station earlier
today, and the automatic barriers were taped off, with everyone
having to take a scenic tour of the booking office to get to the
escalators. It wasn't clear why, and the station employee I asked
looked at me as if was talking Swahili.

The thing that may have confused "irregular users and tourists" was
the lack of an obvious Oyster ad to touch in. It was recommended we
lean over the tape and use one of the pads on the inoperative gates.

Yes, I saw that yesterday when meeting my brother on his way through
London overnight at our mothers on his way from India back home to the US..

Our mother has had to give up driving so we were using the tube to meet
him for the first time for many years. She has a freedom Pass of course
and I had a day travelcard as I was in London for other proposes earlier
in the day.

I got my brother an Oyster card (£1 to Zone 2 instead of £4 cash fare) at
the ticket office then realised when we reached the platform that there
was no Oyster reader anywhere near the route from ticket office to
platform and had to dash back upstairs for him to touch it in. No
apologies for the confusion from staff at all.

Maybe they are following the example of much of the DLR.

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

On Nov 9, 1:10*pm, wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:
In message , at
10:22:32 on Sat, 8 Nov 2008, Paul Corfield
remarked:

irregular travellers and tourists may struggle

Talking of which, I went through T123 Underground station earlier
today, and the automatic barriers were taped off, with everyone
having to take a scenic tour of the booking office to get to the
escalators. It wasn't clear why, and the station employee I asked
looked at me as if was talking Swahili.

The thing that may have confused "irregular users and tourists" was
the lack of an obvious Oyster ad to touch in. It was recommended we
lean over the tape and use one of the pads on the inoperative gates.

Yes, I saw that yesterday when meeting my brother on his way through
London overnight at our mothers on his way from India back home
to the US.

Our mother has had to give up driving so we were using the tube to
meet him for the first time for many years. She has a freedom Pass of
course and I had a day travelcard as I was in London for other
purposes earlier in the day.

I got my brother an Oyster card (£1 to Zone 2 instead of £4 cash
fare) at the ticket office then realised when we reached the
platform that there was no Oyster reader anywhere near the route
from ticket office to platform and had to dash back upstairs for
him to touch it in. No apologies for the confusion from staff at all.

Maybe they are following the example of much of the DLR.

I don't think you can walk from ticket office to DLR platform without
passing even near an Oyster reader.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Nov 9, 2:10*pm, wrote:
In article
,





(MIG) wrote:
On Nov 9, 1:10*pm, wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:
In message , at
10:22:32 on Sat, 8 Nov 2008, Paul Corfield
remarked:

irregular travellers and tourists may struggle

Talking of which, I went through T123 Underground station earlier
today, and the automatic barriers were taped off, with everyone
having to take a scenic tour of the booking office to get to the
escalators. It wasn't clear why, and the station employee I asked
looked at me as if was talking Swahili.

The thing that may have confused "irregular users and tourists" was
the lack of an obvious Oyster ad to touch in. It was recommended we
lean over the tape and use one of the pads on the inoperative gates..

Yes, I saw that yesterday when meeting my brother on his way through
London overnight at our mothers on his way from India back home
to the US.

Our mother has had to give up driving so we were using the tube to
meet him for the first time for many years. She has a freedom Pass of
course and I had a day travelcard as I was in London for other
purposes earlier in the day.

I got my brother an Oyster card (£1 to Zone 2 instead of £4 cash
fare) at the ticket office then realised when we reached the
platform that there was no Oyster reader anywhere near the route
from ticket office to platform and had to dash back upstairs for
him to touch it in. No apologies for the confusion from staff at all.

Maybe they are following the example of much of the DLR.

I don't think you can walk from ticket office to DLR platform without
passing even near an Oyster reader.

The DLR doesn't sell Oyster, so all Oyster holders will have got it
somewhere else, but the problems are around touching in and out on a
normal route to/from the platform from/to the direction an Oyster
holder is likely to be coming/going. Some of them are very badly
placed, for no apparent reason.