You can now buy coffee in London with an ITSO compatible card.

see http://www.squidcard.com/coffeerepublic.html

This card is also being adopted by GMPTE for their smartcard.

On Dec 17, 11:43*am, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
You can now buy coffee in London with an ITSO compatible card.

seehttp://www.squidcard.com/coffeerepublic.html

I can't help but think that this is what the big hole that calls
itself Visa payWave should have been?

Neil

On 17 Dec, 14:22, Neil Williams wrote:
On Dec 17, 11:43*am, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

You can now buy coffee in London with an ITSO compatible card.

seehttp://www.squidcard.com/coffeerepublic.html

I can't help but think that this is what the big hole that calls
itself Visa payWave should have been?

Neil

Visa Paywave (including the oyster Barclaycard Onepulse) and
Mastercard Paypass can now be used at the Eroscard terminals to buy
the Evening Standard.
There are also plans to introduce an Eros prepaid Mastercard Paypass
card.

see https://secure.americanbanker.com/ar...080721ZTR2EYHH

On 20 Dec, 17:06, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

On 17 Dec, 14:22, Neil *Williams wrote:

On Dec 17, 11:43*am, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

You can now buy coffee in London with an ITSO compatible card.

see http://www.squidcard.com/coffeerepublic.html

I can't help but think that this is what the big hole that calls
itself Visa payWave should have been?

Neil

Visa Paywave (including the oyster Barclaycard Onepulse) and
Mastercard Paypass can now be used at the Eroscard terminals to buy
the Evening Standard.
There are also plans to introduce an Eros prepaid Mastercard Paypass
card.

see https://secure.americanbanker.com/ar...080721ZTR2EYHH


That's interesting. So do the Standard think that their readership are
going to be pushed downmarket as a result of the credit crunch and
will be in need of a prepaid card, or do they alternatively think that
the potential customers for such a card are the aspirant type and will
wish to associate themselves with the 'classy' Standard?

Of course the reality is that the Standard think they can successfully
sell people the concept of this pay 'n' wave card through the pages of
their rag, and in thinking that they may well have a point.

On 20 Dec, 17:23, Mizter T wrote:
On 20 Dec, 17:06, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:





On 17 Dec, 14:22, Neil *Williams wrote:

On Dec 17, 11:43*am, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

You can now buy coffee in London with an ITSO compatible card.

seehttp://www.squidcard.com/coffeerepublic.html

I can't help but think that this is what the big hole that calls
itself Visa payWave should have been?

Neil

Visa Paywave (including the oyster Barclaycard Onepulse) and
Mastercard Paypass can now be used at the Eroscard terminals to buy
the Evening Standard.
There are also plans to introduce an Eros prepaid Mastercard Paypass
card.

seehttps://secure.americanbanker.com/article.html?id=20080721ZTR2EYHH

That's interesting. So do the Standard think that their readership are
going to be pushed downmarket as a result of the credit crunch and
will be in need of a prepaid card, or do they alternatively think that
the potential customers for such a card are the aspirant type and will
wish to associate themselves with the 'classy' Standard?

Of course the reality is that the Standard think they can successfully
sell people the concept of this pay 'n' wave card through the pages of
their rag, and in thinking that they may well have a point.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think the long term aspiration for both TfL and the Evening Standard
is to move away from issuing physical plastic or holding money, and to
instead install account based applications on third party payment
cards.

On 22 Dec, 11:58, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

I think the long term aspiration for both TfL and the Evening Standard
is to move away from issuing physical plastic or holding money, and to
instead install account based applications on third party payment
cards.

That makes some sense but it does also throw open the doors to a whole
hoard of other questions.

An obvious issue is that of suitably compatible equipment - in the
future if Visa payWave/ Mastercard PayPass contactless cards were to
be accepted in place of an Oyster card at Oyster terminals then
obviously said terminals would need to either be very significantly
modified or (far more likely) simply replaced.

Also, would passengers then be able to use their contactless card for
paying for travel in London from the outset or would they need to
register or activate them first? Whilst the idea that they were ready
to be used 'out of the envelope' might be attractive, there are a
number of issues such as the contractual question of a passenger
having to agree to the T&Cs of the public transport operator in
question (e.g. TfL); the passenger having an understanding of how to
use the system correctly (e.g. the need to touch-in *and* out);
associated with that the passenger having an understanding of the fare
structure; the question of what happens if a contactless card holder
is abusing the system (currently RPIs can and indeed do confiscate
Oyster cards); the cost of processing each transaction whenever the
card is used to pay a fare to the operator (e.g. TfL) which is not
present with prepaid cards (such as Oyster); the issue of how any
problems might be resolved if, for example, an overpayment has
occurred (at the moment Oyster customer services can simply refund
passengers - in the future would people be calling their bank if such
problems occurred, and would the bank's customer services people have
the vaguest clue of how to deal with such issues).

The existing Barclaycard "OnePulse" card sidesteps all these issues as
the Oyster element is quite separate from the payWave and conventional
credit card elements - in essence the OnePulse card merely plays
'host' to an integral Oyster card (obviously it's a bit more complex
than that as I *think* both the payWave element and the Oyster
element are dealt with by the same multi-function RFID chip, and the
designers had to ensure that the payWave Oyster elements don't
interfere with one another at all). The Oyster account is very much
separate from the credit card account - one can activate the Oyster
auto-topup function to take money from the credit card account when
the Oyster balance is running low, but this is no different to what
one can do with a standalone Oyster card and a separate credit/debit
card anyway. And if people have any problems with the Oyster element
of the card then they merely need to deal with the Oyster customer
services people.

One other big advantage of TfL holding the money is that they get to
benefit from the interest on it, of course!

I'm not for a moment suggesting that in the future contactless payment
cards such as payWave and PayPass won't be integrated into the
infrastructure of public transport smartcards in the future, merely
that what might on the face of it seem a simple and obvious thing to
do is betrayed by the complexity of many of the issues which lurk
beneath!

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:43:57 -0800, Matthew Dickinson wrote:

You can now buy coffee in London with an ITSO compatible card.

see http://www.squidcard.com/coffeerepublic.html

This card is also being adopted by GMPTE for their smartcard.

I've had a pay pass enabled mastercard for some time now but I've not
found anywhere that accepts it.

According to Mastercard loads of places in London accept it though!

peter

On 17 Dec, 18:38, naked_draughtsman
wrote:
I've had a pay pass enabled mastercard for some time now but I've not
found anywhere that accepts it.

According to Mastercard loads of places in London accept it though!

It appears they're going for rollout by stealth. Eventually one day
everyone will have wave and pay cards via natural replacement, and
then they can think about widespread deployment to retailers.

U

"Mr Thant" wrote in message
...
On 17 Dec, 18:38, naked_draughtsman
wrote:
I've had a pay pass enabled mastercard for some time now but I've not
found anywhere that accepts it.

According to Mastercard loads of places in London accept it though!

It appears they're going for rollout by stealth. Eventually one day
everyone will have wave and pay cards via natural replacement, and
then they can think about widespread deployment to retailers.

Or it will crash and burn like the previous attempts at e-money.

At least this time they have the sense not to be trying to charge the user
for the card

tim


U

On 17 Dec, 18:38, naked_draughtsman
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:43:57 -0800, Matthew Dickinson wrote:
You can now buy coffee in London with an ITSO compatible card.

see http://www.squidcard.com/coffeerepublic.html

This card is also being adopted by GMPTE for their smartcard.

I've had a pay pass enabled mastercard for some time now but I've not
found anywhere that accepts it.

According to Mastercard loads of places in London accept it though!


I remember when Visa's "payWave" system launched last year (the first
card being the all-in-one Barclaycard "OnePulse") there was talk of
initial limited acceptance in a few places like shops in Canary Wharf.
So I was rather surprised that, having seen a payWave terminal in a
swanky newsagents in Canary Wharf, I then found one a few days later
in a pretty rough-round-the-edges off licence in New Cross - and yes
they said a few people had already paid that way.

Incidentally, I assume that the Visa "payWave" and Mastercard
"PayPass" systems are compatible, in that a payment terminal in a shop
can handle both Mastercard and Visa cards?

Regarding the original post - very interesting about the ITSO-based
'sQuid card', though I need to do a bit of reading to decipher
everything that's going on here, what with the GMPTE agreement to
trial it and also Bolton council's involvement.

And as Neil has already said, in a sense this is similar to what Visa
payWave offers (as well as Mastercard PayPass) - and I'm sure there
are coffee establishments that accept those RFID cards. That said I
haven't yet come across a payWave or PayPass card that is prepaid -
i.e. one that you can top-up (as you now can with a few prepaid debit
cards) - at the moment the payWave and PayPass cards are being offered
by to the higher-ish-end of the market. The sQuidcard people appear to
hope that they can tap in to a far wider market than that, e.g. kids.

Lastly there were once plans for London's Oyster card to act as an e-
money system as well (i.e. to enable holders to buy low value items
not just pay for fares), but these got shelved back in 2006 - here's
an article about the plan being ditched...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05...tcard_shelved/

The aforementioned piece doesn't however touch on the issues of TfL
effectively having to act as a bank and the burden of the associated
regulation that would ensue if this plan was to go ahead, which I have
read elsewhere was a significant factor in the plans being dropped.
Given the possible security issues that now surround the MiFare
Classic smartcard (which Oyster uses), this is perhaps just as well.

Anyway, when it comes to buying low value items (apart from local
fares where Oyster is a boon), I've never had any particular issues
with using cash! From Mondex onwards, cashless payment systems for
small purchases seems to have been regarded as the holy grail (see all
the notions of cashless payment by mobile or 'm-payments') - I wonder
if it isn't just technology desperately looking for a use...