A tale of confusing tickets and receipts...

The other day I had to get an extension to my Z1-4 season ticket, on the
student discount, in order to go to Epsom. At Waterloo I presented my
Oyster, the paper receipt and my Young Person's Railcard as usual (although
the SWT staff haven't always ben consistent about whether I can get a YPR
discount for this or not). The SWT staffer was the first one to use an
Oyster reader for my card in such circumstances, rather than just looking at
the receipt. He said that my receipt had been printed on a Gold Card slip
and should have been printed on another, and that technically when in the
past I've been given extensions marked as for Gold Card I've been
effectively travelling illegally as I don't have such a one. Looking at some
of the past paper tickets it seems that one of the reasons I haven't always
got the YPR discount has been because of the Gold Card.

Does anyone know:
a) If/how I can get a new paper receipt for my season ticket for future use?
b) Whether it's possible to complain about the TfL staffer at Colindale who
created the mess in the first place?
c) If anyone TOC has ever considered selling extensions from ticket
machines, thus allowing the customer to buy what they know they need/have
the discount for? (And with Oyster surely it would be easy to validate
existing tickets.)

On Mar 7, 8:41*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
A tale of confusing tickets and receipts...

The other day I had to get an extension to my Z1-4 season ticket, on the
student discount, in order to go to Epsom. At Waterloo I presented my
Oyster, the paper receipt and my Young Person's Railcard as usual (although
the SWT staff haven't always ben consistent about whether I can get a YPR
discount for this or not). The SWT staffer was the first one to use an
Oyster reader for my card in such circumstances, rather than just looking at
the receipt. He said that my receipt had been printed on a Gold Card slip
and should have been printed on another, and that technically when in the
past I've been given extensions marked as for Gold Card I've been
effectively travelling illegally as I don't have such a one. Looking at some
of the past paper tickets it seems that one of the reasons I haven't always
got the YPR discount has been because of the Gold Card.

Does anyone know:
a) If/how I can get a new paper receipt for my season ticket for future use?
b) Whether it's possible to complain about the TfL staffer at Colindale who
created the mess in the first place?
c) If anyone TOC has ever considered selling extensions from ticket
machines, thus allowing the customer to buy what they know they need/have
the discount for? (And with Oyster surely it would be easy to validate
existing tickets.)

Having to queue for extensions has been a pain for years, but the
assumption is probably that with Oyster PAYG the problem will go away.

That is, the extension to your season is some PAYG credit on the same
card, as it would be on a purely LU journey now.

MIG wrote:

Having to queue for extensions has been a pain for years, but the
assumption is probably that with Oyster PAYG the problem will go away.

Yes I find it very frustrating because I usually make such journeys off peak
and find the desks fill up with people asking for awkward stuff and the
queue takes an age. The fact that London Underground machines used to do
paper extension tickets (do they still? I've not used one of the machines in
yonks) just makes it more annoying that the TOCs don't.

That is, the extension to your season is some PAYG credit on the same
card, as it would be on a purely LU journey now.

That assumes Oyster will be rolled out into the commuter belt beyond Zone 6
though (although for my particular journey there's talk of moving Epsom into
the zone - the other stations in the borough were not too long ago) and
no-one seems to be talking about this for all the networks at the moment.

On Mar 7, 10:02*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
MIG wrote:
Having to queue for extensions has been a pain for years, but the
assumption is probably that with Oyster PAYG the problem will go away.

Yes I find it very frustrating because I usually make such journeys off peak
and find the desks fill up with people asking for awkward stuff and the
queue takes an age. The fact that London Underground machines used to do
paper extension tickets (do they still? I've not used one of the machines in
yonks) just makes it more annoying that the TOCs don't.

That is, the extension to your season is some PAYG credit on the same
card, as it would be on a purely LU journey now.

That assumes Oyster will be rolled out into the commuter belt beyond Zone 6
though (although for my particular journey there's talk of moving Epsom into
the zone - the other stations in the borough were not too long ago) and
no-one seems to be talking about this for all the networks at the moment.

Ah. Last time I faced the extension frustration it was to go to Epsom
Downs, which is in the zones. I didn't notice Epsom isn't.

MIG wrote:
On Mar 7, 10:02 pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
MIG wrote:
Having to queue for extensions has been a pain for years, but the
assumption is probably that with Oyster PAYG the problem will go away.
Yes I find it very frustrating because I usually make such journeys off peak
and find the desks fill up with people asking for awkward stuff and the
queue takes an age. The fact that London Underground machines used to do
paper extension tickets (do they still? I've not used one of the machines in
yonks) just makes it more annoying that the TOCs don't.

That is, the extension to your season is some PAYG credit on the same
card, as it would be on a purely LU journey now.
That assumes Oyster will be rolled out into the commuter belt beyond Zone 6
though (although for my particular journey there's talk of moving Epsom into
the zone - the other stations in the borough were not too long ago) and
no-one seems to be talking about this for all the networks at the moment.

Ah. Last time I faced the extension frustration it was to go to Epsom
Downs, which is in the zones. I didn't notice Epsom isn't.

Epsom Downs and Banstead were annexed by the zones within the past 2-3
years or so - the zones used to stop at Belmont.

Epsom itself (and Dartford) might make sense for future zonal imperialism.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Arthur Figgis wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Mar 7, 10:02 pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
MIG wrote:
Having to queue for extensions has been a pain for years, but the
assumption is probably that with Oyster PAYG the problem will go away.
Yes I find it very frustrating because I usually make such journeys
off peak
and find the desks fill up with people asking for awkward stuff and the
queue takes an age. The fact that London Underground machines used to do
paper extension tickets (do they still? I've not used one of the
machines in
yonks) just makes it more annoying that the TOCs don't.

That is, the extension to your season is some PAYG credit on the same
card, as it would be on a purely LU journey now.
That assumes Oyster will be rolled out into the commuter belt beyond
Zone 6
though (although for my particular journey there's talk of moving
Epsom into
the zone - the other stations in the borough were not too long ago) and
no-one seems to be talking about this for all the networks at the
moment.

Ah. Last time I faced the extension frustration it was to go to Epsom
Downs, which is in the zones. I didn't notice Epsom isn't.

Epsom Downs and Banstead were annexed by the zones within the past 2-3
years or so - the zones used to stop at Belmont.

Epsom itself (and Dartford) might make sense for future zonal imperialism.


Isn't Dartford already "zoned"?

--
Moving things in still pictures!

On Mar 8, 3:43*pm, ®i©ardo wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Mar 7, 10:02 pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
MIG wrote:
Having to queue for extensions has been a pain for years, but the
assumption is probably that with Oyster PAYG the problem will go away.
Yes I find it very frustrating because I usually make such journeys
off peak
and find the desks fill up with people asking for awkward stuff and the
queue takes an age. The fact that London Underground machines used to do
paper extension tickets (do they still? I've not used one of the
machines in
yonks) just makes it more annoying that the TOCs don't.

That is, the extension to your season is some PAYG credit on the same
card, as it would be on a purely LU journey now.
That assumes Oyster will be rolled out into the commuter belt beyond
Zone 6
though (although for my particular journey there's talk of moving
Epsom into
the zone - the other stations in the borough were not too long ago) and
no-one seems to be talking about this for all the networks at the
moment.

Ah. *Last time I faced the extension frustration it was to go to Epsom
Downs, which is in the zones. *I didn't notice Epsom isn't.

Epsom Downs and Banstead were annexed by the zones within the past 2-3
years or so - the zones used to stop at Belmont.

Epsom itself (and Dartford) might make sense for future zonal imperialism.

Isn't Dartford already "zoned"?

No, although I don't quite understand the system for extending zones
beyond Greater London. Maybe it depends on when it happened, whether
PAYG existed at the time, whether PAYG is accepted etc; it seems to be
a bit of a mess.

For Watford and the Metropolitan (PAYG accepted) they created zones 7
to 9.

For the Central Line (PAYG accepted) they extended zone 6.

For various bits of NR, eg Hampton Court, Epsom Downs (PAYG not
accepted) they've extended zone 6.

MIG wrote:
No, although I don't quite understand the system for extending zones
beyond Greater London. Maybe it depends on when it happened, whether
PAYG existed at the time, whether PAYG is accepted etc; it seems to be
a bit of a mess.

For Watford and the Metropolitan (PAYG accepted) they created zones 7
to 9.


To be more precise, Watford Junction is not in the zonal system. It is
'beyond zone 8', but not in zone 9, according to the TfL and London
Connections maps. Only Amersham and Chesham are in zone 9, Watford Met is in
zone 7.

However Watford Junction does have a special PAYG fare, so it sets the
precedent for any other station that is just outside the zones, but
logically fits the PAYG scheme.

Paul S

On Mar 8, 6:01*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
MIG wrote:
No, although I don't quite understand the system for extending zones
beyond Greater London. *Maybe it depends on when it happened, whether
PAYG existed at the time, whether PAYG is accepted etc; it seems to be
a bit of a mess.

For Watford and the Metropolitan (PAYG accepted) they created zones 7
to 9.

To be more precise, Watford Junction is not in the zonal system. It is
'beyond zone 8', but not in zone 9, according to the TfL and London
Connections maps. Only Amersham and Chesham are in zone 9, Watford Met is in
zone 7.

Yes, I should have said "the LO Watford line".


However Watford Junction does have a special PAYG fare, so it sets the
precedent for any other station that is just outside the zones, but
logically fits the PAYG scheme.

I suppose so, given that it doesn't seem to be restricted to LO
services (ie there are now Oyster readers at platforms at Euston that
can't be reached by third rail trains). There isn't a self-contained
line ending at Dartford, but that doesn't seem to matter.

MIG wrote:
On Mar 8, 3:43 pm, ®i©ardo wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Mar 7, 10:02 pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
MIG wrote:
Having to queue for extensions has been a pain for years, but the
assumption is probably that with Oyster PAYG the problem will go away.
Yes I find it very frustrating because I usually make such journeys
off peak
and find the desks fill up with people asking for awkward stuff and the
queue takes an age. The fact that London Underground machines used to do
paper extension tickets (do they still? I've not used one of the
machines in
yonks) just makes it more annoying that the TOCs don't.
That is, the extension to your season is some PAYG credit on the same
card, as it would be on a purely LU journey now.
That assumes Oyster will be rolled out into the commuter belt beyond
Zone 6
though (although for my particular journey there's talk of moving
Epsom into
the zone - the other stations in the borough were not too long ago) and
no-one seems to be talking about this for all the networks at the
moment.
Ah. Last time I faced the extension frustration it was to go to Epsom
Downs, which is in the zones. I didn't notice Epsom isn't.
Epsom Downs and Banstead were annexed by the zones within the past 2-3
years or so - the zones used to stop at Belmont.
Epsom itself (and Dartford) might make sense for future zonal imperialism.
Isn't Dartford already "zoned"?

No, although I don't quite understand the system for extending zones
beyond Greater London. Maybe it depends on when it happened, whether
PAYG existed at the time, whether PAYG is accepted etc; it seems to be
a bit of a mess.

For Watford and the Metropolitan (PAYG accepted) they created zones 7
to 9.

For the Central Line (PAYG accepted) they extended zone 6.

For various bits of NR, eg Hampton Court, Epsom Downs (PAYG not
accepted) they've extended zone 6.

Thanks. I only raised the question because Dartford (and Swanley) seem
to indicate the furthest limit of the Oystercard scheme in that
particular part of Kent, so I just assumed that they would be part of a
zone.

Having just been issued with a card under the Veterans' Concessionary
Travel Scheme, although I live in Somerset, I've been poring over
transport maps of London/Greater London to see just how far I can get
for free, once I get off the train at Paddington. My intention is to
visit the Royal Engineers Museum which is close to Gillingham station,
hence my interest in the extent of the Kentish connection.

--
Moving things in still pictures!