I was just looking at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj...aces/2259.aspx
and I noticed that Natal Road, which usefully gets you right up to the
Brownlow Rd/A406 junction without experiencing any traffic jams when both of
those roads are utterly clogged, is going to have a forced left turn to
Bowes Road, making it useless. I also notice that they are banning the left
turn from the NCR to Melville Gardens, which is currently a very handy
escape route when the A406 here is clogged (which is most of the time). The
site makes noises about how the junctions will be improved, but it doesn't
suggest that capacity will be increased, just that pedestrian facilities
will be improved at the expense of road traffic. So the "improvement"
involves making one of the worst bottlenecks in London worse, and shutting
down all escape routes to force even more traffic into it. Is it too late to
get Boris to change some small details?

How will they enforce a no left turn? Doesn't make sense unless they
physcially block the left side of the road where it joins the 406.
Wouldn't put it past them however.

B2003

wrote:

How will they enforce a no left turn? Doesn't make sense unless they
physcially block the left side of the road where it joins the 406.
Wouldn't put it past them however.

Your name spelt backwards is "Rat Lob".

On Tue, 10 Mar 2009, John Rowland wrote:

I was just looking at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj...aces/2259.aspx
and I noticed that Natal Road, which usefully gets you right up to the
Brownlow Rd/A406 junction without experiencing any traffic jams when both of
those roads are utterly clogged, is going to have a forced left turn to
Bowes Road, making it useless. I also notice that they are banning the left
turn from the NCR to Melville Gardens, which is currently a very handy
escape route when the A406 here is clogged (which is most of the time). The
site makes noises about how the junctions will be improved, but it doesn't
suggest that capacity will be increased, just that pedestrian facilities
will be improved at the expense of road traffic. So the "improvement"
involves making one of the worst bottlenecks in London worse, and shutting
down all escape routes to force even more traffic into it. Is it too late to
get Boris to change some small details?

Only one way to find out!

http://www.writetothem.com/

tom

--
Any problem in computer science can be solved with another layer of
indirection. But that usually will create another problem. -- David
Wheeler

On Mar 10, 6:01 pm, "John Rowland"
wrote:
wrote:

How will they enforce a no left turn? Doesn't make sense unless they
physcially block the left side of the road where it joins the 406.
Wouldn't put it past them however.

Your name spelt backwards is "Rat Lob".

And yours spelt in any direction is "muppet"

B2003

John Rowland wrote:
I was just looking at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj...aces/2259.aspx
and I noticed that Natal Road, which usefully gets you right up to the
Brownlow Rd/A406 junction without experiencing any traffic jams when both of
those roads are utterly clogged, is going to have a forced left turn to
Bowes Road, making it useless.

And anyone travelling from Arnos Grove along Bowes Road and wanting to
get onto the A406 Westbound will need to do a big loop via Warwick Road
and Bounds Green Road (assuming it's possible to turn right onto Bounds
Green Road from Warwick Road, that is) or, worse, right down to the
Cambridge Roundabout and do a U-turn!

And anyone who currently turns right from Telford Road into Station Road
will need to do a similarly huge loop via Warwick Road/Brownlow Road and
Bounds Green Road.

What is *needed* for that stretch of the A406 is a much more substantial
upgrade to bring it in line with the rest of the road, but of course
that ain't gonna happen because that would actually be *useful*.

Cheers,

Barry

Barry Salter wrote:


What is *needed* for that stretch of the A406 is a much more substantial
upgrade to bring it in line with the rest of the road, but of course
that ain't gonna happen because that would actually be *useful*.


Useful being shorthand for 'hugely expensive, disruptive,
environmentally damaging and a throwback to the failed ideas of the
1960s when people thought urban motorways were a good idea'.

Tom

Tom Barry wrote:
Barry Salter wrote:


What is *needed* for that stretch of the A406 is a much more
substantial upgrade to bring it in line with the rest of the road, but
of course that ain't gonna happen because that would actually be
*useful*.


Useful being shorthand for 'hugely expensive, disruptive,
environmentally damaging and a throwback to the failed ideas of the
1960s when people thought urban motorways were a good idea'.

Useful being a shorthand for "it's the only section of the A406 that has
yet to be upgraded and the proposed scheme will do **** all to reduce
the traffic jams that occur for much of the day as a result, in fact
it'll probably make it worse in exactly the same way as the 2004
'improvements' to the Great Cambridge Junction has."

Said 'improvements' comprised:

+ A new bus lane along Silver Street between Windmill Road and the
roundabout

+ Banning the left turn from Silver Street onto the A406 Eastbound,
meaning traffic either has to travel the entire length of Silver Street
or go all the way round the roundabout, which results in a significant
number of drivers making an illegal left turn, often straight in front
of a bus.

+ Making Taplow Road one way, so traffic from the A406 Eastbound wishing
to head along the A111 (Hedge Lane) has to go round the roundabout.

+ Making the roundabout end of the A111 one way, so traffic wishing to
head along the A10 Northbound has to go down Taplow Road and onto the
roundabout.

And, more recently:

+ Installing traffic lights at the roundabout with wholly inappropriate
phasing, resulting in even more tailbacks on the approaches.

But hey, what do I know? I just live in the area and have to put up with
the daily traffic jams travelling to and from work.

Cheers,

Barry

Barry Salter wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
I was just looking at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj...aces/2259.aspx

And anyone travelling from Arnos Grove along Bowes Road and wanting to
get onto the A406 Westbound will need to do a big loop via Warwick
Road and Bounds Green Road (assuming it's possible to turn right onto
Bounds Green Road from Warwick Road, that is)

It is possible.

or, worse, right down
to the Cambridge Roundabout and do a U-turn!

No, you would either cut though Palmers Road and Inverforth Road or you
could go through Seafield Road. Incidentally you have the same conundrum in
reverse now, because the left turn from Telford Road to Bowes Road is
currently banned. But the fact that Station Road and Bowes Road (nearly)
meet at their west ends means very few people have to do this anyway.

And anyone who currently turns right from Telford Road into Station
Road will need to do a similarly huge loop via Warwick Road/Brownlow
Road and Bounds Green Road.

Right turn from Browlow Rd to Bounds Green Road currently banned. I don't
see using Warwick Road as a hardship, the bigger problem is having to endure
jams in Bounds Green Road.

What is *needed* for that stretch of the A406 is a much more
substantial upgrade to bring it in line with the rest of the road,
but of course that ain't gonna happen because that would actually be
*useful*.

It doesn't need to be 50mph + flyovers like the rest of the road, but it
does need to have capacity increases at the junctions. Three lanes forward
with 50% green time at 30mph would equal the capacity of the 2 lane 50mph
underpasses between the Cambridge Roundabout and Barking, wouldn't it? And
it would require a fraction of the demolition of the underpass scheme. Is
there an online resource for working out junction capacity?

The Bounds Green Road junction could be grade separated without demolishing
a thing.

Barry Salter wrote:

2004 'improvements' to the Great Cambridge Junction."

Said 'improvements' comprised:

+ Banning the left turn from Silver Street onto the A406 Eastbound,
meaning traffic either has to travel the entire length of Silver
Street or go all the way round the roundabout, which results in a
significant number of drivers making an illegal left turn, often
straight in front of a bus.

I don't see how you can say banning cars from doing a left turn in front of
a bus causes them to do an illegal left turn in front of a bus. Anyway, are
you sure that banned left turn doesn't date from the construction of the
underpass? Its purpose is surely to prevent traffic from the A10 s/b to the
A406 e/b from cutting through Kendal Parade, which is a reasonably noble
cause.