On 6 June, 17:23, MIG wrote:
On 6 June, 16:53, Mizter T wrote:

On Jun 6, 3:48*pm, MIG wrote:

On 6 June, 15:23, Mizter T wrote:

[snip]

(I suppose Chiltern could possibly run a Harrow-on-the-Hill to
Marylebone shuttle if a few non-striking LU signallers could be found
- though are there any crossovers south of HotH?)

There aren't.

I'd like to say 'well in that case they can run two trains in steam'
on each line, but I'm sure there'd be problems with trying to treat
two non-reversible lines as reversible!

Actually, my mistake, there is a trailing crossover at Neasden, but I
don't think it would help.

Oh ang on though, if they used platform 1 at HotH, I think there may
be a crossover. Not sure if it isn't just a track crossing to/from
the Metropolitan or if it leads to/from the up Chiltern track as well.

On Jun 6, 5:29*pm, MIG wrote:
On 6 June, 17:23, MIG wrote:





On 6 June, 16:53, Mizter T wrote:

On Jun 6, 3:48*pm, MIG wrote:

On 6 June, 15:23, Mizter T wrote:

[snip]

(I suppose Chiltern could possibly run a Harrow-on-the-Hill to
Marylebone shuttle if a few non-striking LU signallers could be found
- though are there any crossovers south of HotH?)

There aren't.

I'd like to say 'well in that case they can run two trains in steam'
on each line, but I'm sure there'd be problems with trying to treat
two non-reversible lines as reversible!


There's no access for Down train to the Up Harrow at any point beyond
Marylebone itself, so there'd be no way of running such services with
the main Chiltern route open.

Actually, my mistake, there is a trailing crossover at Neasden, but I
don't think it would help.


Unfortunately, that's on the Marylebone side of the junction and is
almost certainly not signalled from Up trains from the Down Harrow
line.

Oh ang on though, if they used platform 1 at HotH, I think there may
be a crossover. *Not sure if it isn't just a track crossing to/from
the Metropolitan or if it leads to/from the up Chiltern track as well.

I can't remember if this crossover can be used from Up departures from
Platform 1 at Harrow. My memory tells me that there is no signal for
this route. What I can't remember is if the crossover from the NB Fast
to the Platform 1 just passes over the intervening Up line or whether
there is pointwork in the Up line allowing access.

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Oh ang on though, if they used platform 1 at HotH, I think there may
be a crossover. *Not sure if it isn't just a track crossing to/from
the Metropolitan or if it leads to/from the up Chiltern track as well.

I can't remember if this crossover can be used from Up departures from
Platform 1 at Harrow. My memory tells me that there is no signal for
this route. What I can't remember is if the crossover from the NB Fast
to the Platform 1 just passes over the intervening Up line or whether
there is pointwork in the Up line allowing access.

There isn't pointwork - it's one of those things that I think is
referred to as a diamond crossing.

Then again, all the signalling in that area (and for some distance to
the east of Harrow, even on the NR lines) is LU-operated anyway. Or at
least the signals look like LU ones. So LU signallers would be needed
in any case (and if any were available, the trains could just reverse
using the trailing crossover to the west of Harrow).

Besides, in this age of can't-be-bothered railway operations, even
Chiltern would have to be absolute saints to run a Harrow-Marylebone
shuttle under such circumstances, what with the far easier option on
the table of just cancelling everything.

On 9 June, 00:38, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Oh ang on though, if they used platform 1 at HotH, I think there may
be a crossover. *Not sure if it isn't just a track crossing to/from
the Metropolitan or if it leads to/from the up Chiltern track as well.

I can't remember if this crossover can be used from Up departures from
Platform 1 at Harrow. My memory tells me that there is no signal for
this route. What I can't remember is if the crossover from the NB Fast
to the Platform 1 just passes over the intervening Up line or whether
there is pointwork in the Up line allowing access.

There isn't pointwork - it's one of those things that I think is
referred to as a diamond crossing.

Thanks, I though it probably was, but couldn't remember.


Then again, all the signalling in that area (and for some distance to
the east of Harrow, even on the NR lines) is LU-operated anyway. Or at
least the signals look like LU ones. So LU signallers would be needed
in any case (and if any were available, the trains could just reverse
using the trailing crossover to the west of Harrow).


That's true.

Besides, in this age of can't-be-bothered railway operations, even
Chiltern would have to be absolute saints to run a Harrow-Marylebone
shuttle under such circumstances, what with the far easier option on
the table of just cancelling everything.

Chiltern have run such shuttles in the past, when there has been
engineering work in the Wembley area. They reversed using the
crossover north/west of the station as you suggested.

On 9 June, 14:40, wrote:
On 9 June, 00:38, asdf wrote:

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Oh ang on though, if they used platform 1 at HotH, I think there may
be a crossover. *Not sure if it isn't just a track crossing to/from
the Metropolitan or if it leads to/from the up Chiltern track as well.

I can't remember if this crossover can be used from Up departures from
Platform 1 at Harrow. My memory tells me that there is no signal for
this route. What I can't remember is if the crossover from the NB Fast
to the Platform 1 just passes over the intervening Up line or whether
there is pointwork in the Up line allowing access.

There isn't pointwork - it's one of those things that I think is
referred to as a diamond crossing.

Thanks, I though it probably was, but couldn't remember.

It can't be that simple though, because it has to allow for
Metropolitan trains in both directions, doesn't it? So there must be
something from the up Chiltern to the Met as well as the diamond from
the Met to the down Chiltern, even if nothing from platform 1 to the
up Chiltern?




Then again, all the signalling in that area (and for some distance to
the east of Harrow, even on the NR lines) is LU-operated anyway. Or at
least the signals look like LU ones. So LU signallers would be needed
in any case (and if any were available, the trains could just reverse
using the trailing crossover to the west of Harrow).

That's true.

Besides, in this age of can't-be-bothered railway operations, even
Chiltern would have to be absolute saints to run a Harrow-Marylebone
shuttle under such circumstances, what with the far easier option on
the table of just cancelling everything.

Chiltern have run such shuttles in the past, when there has been
engineering work in the Wembley area. They reversed using the
crossover north/west of the station as you suggested.

On 9 June, 14:49, MIG wrote:
On 9 June, 14:40, wrote:





On 9 June, 00:38, asdf wrote:

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Oh ang on though, if they used platform 1 at HotH, I think there may
be a crossover. *Not sure if it isn't just a track crossing to/from
the Metropolitan or if it leads to/from the up Chiltern track as well.

I can't remember if this crossover can be used from Up departures from
Platform 1 at Harrow. My memory tells me that there is no signal for
this route. What I can't remember is if the crossover from the NB Fast
to the Platform 1 just passes over the intervening Up line or whether
there is pointwork in the Up line allowing access.

There isn't pointwork - it's one of those things that I think is
referred to as a diamond crossing.

Thanks, I though it probably was, but couldn't remember.

It can't be that simple though, because it has to allow for
Metropolitan trains in both directions, doesn't it? *So there must be
something from the up Chiltern to the Met as well as the diamond from
the Met to the down Chiltern, even if nothing from platform 1 to the
up Chiltern?



Platform 1 is only accessible from the Down Chiltern and the NB Met
fast, via the diamond crossing, heading north (to the NB Met fast),
with no access heading south without a shunt. Platform 2 only has
access to the Up Chiltern, heading south from the SB Met fast, or the
NB Met fast heading north via the trailing crossover. There is no
access to other Met line tracks (i.e. the both southbound, NB slow or
the Uxbridge lines). Met line trains only use Platform 1 heading
north, from the NB fast or platform 2 reversing from SB to NB. There
are no other Met line possibilities, with the current layout.

On 9 June, 16:41, wrote:
On 9 June, 14:49, MIG wrote:





On 9 June, 14:40, wrote:

On 9 June, 00:38, asdf wrote:

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Oh ang on though, if they used platform 1 at HotH, I think there may
be a crossover. *Not sure if it isn't just a track crossing to/from
the Metropolitan or if it leads to/from the up Chiltern track as well.

I can't remember if this crossover can be used from Up departures from
Platform 1 at Harrow. My memory tells me that there is no signal for
this route. What I can't remember is if the crossover from the NB Fast
to the Platform 1 just passes over the intervening Up line or whether
there is pointwork in the Up line allowing access.

There isn't pointwork - it's one of those things that I think is
referred to as a diamond crossing.

Thanks, I though it probably was, but couldn't remember.

It can't be that simple though, because it has to allow for
Metropolitan trains in both directions, doesn't it? *So there must be
something from the up Chiltern to the Met as well as the diamond from
the Met to the down Chiltern, even if nothing from platform 1 to the
up Chiltern?

Platform 1 is only accessible from the Down Chiltern and the NB Met
fast, via the diamond crossing, heading north (to the NB Met fast),
with no access heading south without a shunt. Platform 2 only has
access to the Up Chiltern, heading south from the SB Met fast, or the
NB Met fast heading north via the trailing crossover. There is no
access to other Met line tracks (i.e. the both southbound, NB slow or
the Uxbridge lines). Met line trains only use Platform 1 heading
north, from the NB fast or platform 2 reversing from SB to NB. There
are no other Met line possibilities, with the current layout.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah right, so you can't take the Met south through platform 2, I think
you are saying, and it's electricked only for reversing back north.
That seems a bit unbalanced given that you can go north through
platform 1, but if that's the way it is ... Hard to tell from
diagrams.