On Jun 9, 9:45*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:39:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
"London Overground and Southern services will not call at Wembley
Central or North Wembley stations on Wednesday 10 June from
approximately 18:00. A normal service is expected to run at all other
times."

Surely it is to do with the England match at Wembley and the obvious
decision that there will be *no* rail based access to Wembley? All the
stations in the area are shut or else trains will not stop - Chiltern
included.


Possibly, I didn't think of that.

If one station was known to be open it would be swamped to dangerous
levels so perverse as it seems it is better to have them all closed and
thus the risk of crush conditions in stations disappears.

But isn't S********** P*** nearly as close as North Wembley, with S***
K***** not much further either? I know most fans might not realise
this, but there will be a few who will be able to work it out.

--
Paul C

On Jun 10, 12:06*am, wrote:

On Jun 9, 9:45*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:39:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
"London Overground and Southern services will not call at Wembley
Central or North Wembley stations on Wednesday 10 June from
approximately 18:00. A normal service is expected to run at all other
times."

Surely it is to do with the England match at Wembley and the obvious
decision that there will be *no* rail based access to Wembley? All the
stations in the area are shut or else trains will not stop - Chiltern
included.

Possibly, I didn't think of that.

That's what's happening, yes.


If one station was known to be open it would be swamped to dangerous
levels so perverse as it seems it is better to have them all closed and
thus the risk of crush conditions in stations disappears.

But isn't S********** P*** nearly as close as North Wembley, with S***
K***** not much further either? I know most fans might not realise
this, but there will be a few who will be able to work it out.

They're one step ahead of you - S********** P*** is now also going to
be closed as well, though S*** K***** appears to have survived the
cull - and there's H******** station to the south as well of course.

Those who are keen can work these things out, of course - mapping
websites such as http://www.streetmap.co.uk and http://
www.walkit.com/ being useful especially for those without an A-Z to
hand (plus walkit.com is good for the time estimate anyway).

The additional closure of S********** P*** is according to the NRE
strike disruptions page he
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/servic...e/details.html

Meanwhile TfL's own "Current Overground network status" page (which is
part of their "Live travel news" section) is as naff as ever - it only
mentions that Blackhorse Road is shut (as it's LUL managed), which is
the same message as yesterday evening. Meanwhile NRE page seems more
up to date as it currently states "Blackhorse Road station is
currently open for London Overground services, but may be closed at
short notice."

The fact there's no mention of the forthcoming closure of the three
stations in the vicinity of Wembley this evening on the TfL page is
really rather shabby - I kinda expected TfL to do a better job of
this.

I've just remembered the place to go for up to date LO information is
of course JourneyCheck - TfL/LO don't advertise the existence of it
publicly anywhere these days, though just after they took over the ex-
Silverlink routes a link to id did appear on the TfL website for a
short while - so I dare say it's aimed rather more at their own staff.
Anyway, one can get to it he
http://www.jcheck.com/londonoverground

On Jun 10, 5:33*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:23:48 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

Meanwhile TfL's own "Current Overground network status" page (which is
part of their "Live travel news" section) is as naff as ever - it only
mentions that Blackhorse Road is shut (as it's LUL managed), which is
the same message as yesterday evening. Meanwhile NRE page seems more
up to date as it currently states "Blackhorse Road station is
currently open for London Overground services, but may be closed at
short notice."

from what I could see at 0630 this morning Blackhorse Road was most
definitely open as it was at 1430 when I got back from my stint of
volunteering at Turnpike Lane.

Thanks - nothing like an eyewitness account!

Curious to know, would TfL buildings have been like ghost towns today,
i.e. what proportion of staff would have been out on the front line?
And do people volunteer or 'volunteer' to do this, IYSWIM?


I've just remembered the place to go for up to date LO information is
of course JourneyCheck - TfL/LO don't advertise the existence of it
publicly anywhere these days, though just after they took over the ex-
Silverlink routes a link to it did appear on the TfL website for a
short while - so I dare say it's aimed rather more at their own staff.
Anyway, one can get to it he
http://www.jcheck.com/londonoverground

It is very odd that the TfL website doesn't seem to deal with Overground
service status terribly well.

It's rather disappointing. I remember expecting, on TfL/LO taking over
from Silverlink, for there to be much improved efforts to communicate
information on the web. Instead, as I recall it was initially far
worse - there was nothing! No weekend engineering works information at
all (!!!), no live running information, just the same stale old
webpages on what TfL planned to do when they took over the ex-
Silverlink Metro routes - after a short while the link to the
JourneyCheck service appeared on TfL's 'live travel news' page for
under the "Rail" mode tab, but it subsequently disappeared after while
- presumably the logic being that the 'live travel news' pages would
instead be updated with up to the minute stuff. Well, they're not!

Also, LO never appears as disrupted on the real-time Tube map either,
despite the fact that it appears on the map (shaded-out, as if there's
no disruption).


It looks like the NLL and Euston Watfords are suffering a bit "due to an
unusually large passenger flow" - what a lovely turn of phrase.

It'll get flushed out of the system eventually, I'm sure.

This message has belatedly appeared on the "Current Overground network
status page:

---quote---
LONDON OVERGROUND, EUSTON - WATFORD JUNCTION: Severe delays are
occurring due to overcrowding. Trains are not calling at Stonebridge
Park, Wembley Central and North Wembley due to industrial action.
---/quote---

A somewhat disingenuous explanation perhaps, though undoubtedly it is
only happening because of the strike.

Incidentally, I've only now worked out the spectacularly complicated
way the items on that page are ordered, which I remember puzzling over
beforehand - it's that strange thing called alphabetical order!

I am however now doubting myself a little and wondering whether I had
scrolled down the page enough to see all the items that were on
display, or whether I've gone on a rant about lack of information that
was in fact there all along... That said, I'm pretty sure I looked at
it properly last time and didn't miss anything, but I can;t be sure.

However, either way it demonstrates that the way the information
presented is far from ideal - because of the alphabetical ordering of
items, really important things could appear 'below the
fold' (newsprint term) - i.e. you'd need to scroll down to see them.
Surely the most up to date, er, updates should always show at the top
of the page, whilst other more permanent items such as the info about
the 20 minute frequencies on the WLL and NLL south west of Willesden
Jn should appear further down [1].

Though I'd favour overhauling it and displaying information on a route
basis, e.g. NLL, GOBLIN etc. Yes, there is some crossover between the
NLL and WLL, but that wouldn't be a show stopper - any information
that pertains to both routes could be displayed in both categories.


----------
[1] I do just have to have a bit of a rant about this specifically,
having read and digested it. The item in question reads as follows:

---quote---
LONDON OVERGROUND (RICHMOND - CLAPHAM JUNCTION - STRATFORD): Monday to
Friday 0600-0900 and 1600-1900 trains operate every 20 minutes on each
line in both directions. As a result trains operate every 10 minutes
between Willesden Junction and Stratford.
---/quote---

Now, who could possibly blame anyone who might come away from reading
that with the erroneous impression that LO operated a service from
Richmond via Clapham Jn to Willesden Jn? I'm deeply unimpressed.

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:33:12 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

It is very odd that the TfL website doesn't seem to deal with Overground
service status terribly well.

It looks like the NLL and Euston Watfords are suffering a bit "due to an
unusually large passenger flow" - what a lovely turn of phrase.

They're crowded enough in the a.m. peak on a normal day (to the point
of people regularly being left behind on the platform) - I was a bit
surprised that media reports were emphasising that the route was
running, as most people wouldn't have a hope of getting on.

And on top of the strike, the London Midland service was well and
truly stuffed by a signal failure in the Carpenders Park area.

So I imagine the sport of "how many people can you fit in a 313?" was
well practised this morning.

On Jun 10, 11:33*pm, asdf wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:33:12 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
It is very odd that the TfL website doesn't seem to deal with Overground
service status terribly well.

It looks like the NLL and Euston Watfords are suffering a bit "due to an
unusually large passenger flow" - what a lovely turn of phrase.

They're crowded enough in the a.m. peak on a normal day (to the point
of people regularly being left behind on the platform) - I was a bit
surprised that media reports were emphasising that the route was
running, as most people wouldn't have a hope of getting on.

I know the NLL is crazy busy during morning and evening peaks, but how
hectic does is get on the DC line? I know people who live up Kensal
Green way, but none of them ever seem to use the service at the height
of the peaks (explained by cycling, walking, bus, odd shifts, doesn't
go where they need to be).


And on top of the strike, the London Midland service was well and
truly stuffed by a signal failure in the Carpenders Park area.

So I imagine the sport of "how many people can you fit in a 313?" was
well practised this morning.

Joyous!

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:41:53 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:


On Jun 10, 11:33*pm, asdf wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:33:12 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
It is very odd that the TfL website doesn't seem to deal with Overground
service status terribly well.

It looks like the NLL and Euston Watfords are suffering a bit "due to an
unusually large passenger flow" - what a lovely turn of phrase.

They're crowded enough in the a.m. peak on a normal day (to the point
of people regularly being left behind on the platform) - I was a bit
surprised that media reports were emphasising that the route was
running, as most people wouldn't have a hope of getting on.

I know the NLL is crazy busy during morning and evening peaks, but how
hectic does is get on the DC line? I know people who live up Kensal
Green way, but none of them ever seem to use the service at the height
of the peaks (explained by cycling, walking, bus, odd shifts, doesn't
go where they need to be).

I suspect a lot of people have managed to pass it (and other DC line
stations) without noticing it is there.

Much of the DC line signage is still as bad as it was after "British
Rail" was invented (see the picture of Kenton Station in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenton_station and compare with
historical photographs of DC/NLL stations showing more prominent
signage _above_ the entrance canopy). While the LMS/early BR listing
of 1001 destinations would be a bit OTT, the signage still needs
improvement so that people notice the stations and have basic
information amounting to more than a couple of overgrown badges.

Kensal Green station does not look a lot better
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensal_...ilway_station], having
the appearance of a warehouse or village hall and an apparent failure
to make the LO/NR symbols prominent on a contrasting background;
putting "station" at the end of the name would also help.


And on top of the strike, the London Midland service was well and
truly stuffed by a signal failure in the Carpenders Park area.

So I imagine the sport of "how many people can you fit in a 313?" was
well practised this morning.

Joyous!

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:41:53 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote:

On Jun 10, 11:33*pm, asdf wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:33:12 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
It is very odd that the TfL website doesn't seem to deal with Overground
service status terribly well.

It looks like the NLL and Euston Watfords are suffering a bit "due to an
unusually large passenger flow" - what a lovely turn of phrase.

They're crowded enough in the a.m. peak on a normal day (to the point
of people regularly being left behind on the platform) - I was a bit
surprised that media reports were emphasising that the route was
running, as most people wouldn't have a hope of getting on.

I know the NLL is crazy busy during morning and evening peaks, but how
hectic does is get on the DC line?

Actually, I neglected to mention that I was writing that about the DC
line (though I bet the NLL wasn't pretty either).

"asdf" wrote in message
...


Actually, I neglected to mention that I was writing that about the DC
line (though I bet the NLL wasn't pretty either).

It wasn't (excuse me coming to this late). I was on the very crowded train
scheduled to leave Gospel Oak for Clapham Junction around 0920 on Thursday.
All trains through Gospel Oak seemed to be running around 6-10 minutes late
just because of extra time at stations to handle the crowds. The driver
announced that a freight train had been routed immediately in front of us
and we had to wait at the platform until the freight train had cleared
Hampstead Tunnel - that's past the next station and then some. I wonder
whether that's a single block section or whether there's some other
safety-related issue. So we were around 15 minutes late at Clapham, and at
Willesden Junction in particular staff were stopping people from trying to
board the train

Martin

On 10 June, 23:33, asdf wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:33:12 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
It is very odd that the TfL website doesn't seem to deal with Overground
service status terribly well.

It looks like the NLL and Euston Watfords are suffering a bit "due to an
unusually large passenger flow" - what a lovely turn of phrase.

They're crowded enough in the a.m. peak on a normal day (to the point
of people regularly being left behind on the platform) - I was a bit
surprised that media reports were emphasising that the route was
running, as most people wouldn't have a hope of getting on.

And on top of the strike, the London Midland service was well and
truly stuffed by a signal failure in the Carpenders Park area.

So I imagine the sport of "how many people can you fit in a 313?" was
well practised this morning.

Apparantly LO are running additional services Harrow & Wealdstone -
Kilburn High Road, to take some of the load off. There was certainly a
313 in Harrow sidings yesterday morning and there platform displays
were advertising the service this morning too.

From experience, the LO trains are full on the Euston to/from about
Willesden / Wembley section during a normal peak, but you can usually
get on. As soon as there is any disruption to either the London
Midland or Bakerloo services, you'd be hard put to get on at
intermediate stations. Yesterday things wouldn't have been helped by
the lack of Southern services, as these are quite busy on Watford -
Shepherds Bush / Kensington Olympia leg and this was the part
cancelled due to the Carpenders Park problem.