On Jul 13, 11:56*am, Neil Williams wrote:
On Jul 13, 11:52*am, John B wrote:

Removing the 3rd seat from the 313s (making them 2+2 with a wide
aisle) has significantly improved the travelling experience, on the
couple of times I've used full NLL trains since they made the change.
I'm sure that longitudinal seating will be similarly helpful.

One thing I really dislike about it is that there is nowhere to stand
where you're not in the way of someone.

Perhaps having a large open standback area with no seats at all, but
then 3+2 seating further in, would be better?

Eh? On 3+2 trains like (most) 319s and (all?) 321s, there's nowhere to
stand where you're not in the way of *everyone*. On narrow-seat wide-
aisle 2+2 trains like the LO 313s and the SWT 455s, you can stand in
the aisle and there's still room for people to go past you. Surely
that's an improvement...?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Jul 13, 12:14*pm, John B wrote:
On Jul 13, 11:56*am, Neil *Williams wrote:

On Jul 13, 11:52*am, John B wrote:

Removing the 3rd seat from the 313s (making them 2+2 with a wide
aisle) has significantly improved the travelling experience, on the
couple of times I've used full NLL trains since they made the change.
I'm sure that longitudinal seating will be similarly helpful.

One thing I really dislike about it is that there is nowhere to stand
where you're not in the way of someone.

Perhaps having a large open standback area with no seats at all, but
then 3+2 seating further in, would be better?

Eh? On 3+2 trains like (most) 319s and (all?) 321s, there's nowhere to
stand where you're not in the way of *everyone*. On narrow-seat wide-
aisle 2+2 trains like the LO 313s and the SWT 455s, you can stand in
the aisle and there's still room for people to go past you. Surely
that's an improvement...?

Have you tried the NLL at peak time lately? even with the 2+2, things
are somewhat wedged. Last week, I found myself in a vestibule area,
trying to prop myself up against the ceiling - and being very glad
that it doesn't form part of my usual commute.

On Jul 13, 12:14*pm, John B wrote:

Eh? On 3+2 trains like (most) 319s and (all?) 321s, there's nowhere to
stand where you're not in the way of *everyone*. On narrow-seat wide-
aisle 2+2 trains like the LO 313s and the SWT 455s, you can stand in
the aisle and there's still room for people to go past you. Surely
that's an improvement...?

That is, but longitudinal is not - I find that being right in front of
people feels a lot more "in the way" than by the side of a (2+2) seat.

A way to avoid this would be 3+2 in 2/3 of the coach and no seating at
all in the other third, thus giving (like the SWT 455s) a large
standback area by the doors. Twice the size of the SWT ones may be
better.

Neil

On Jul 13, 12:29*pm, Neil Williams wrote:
On Jul 13, 12:14*pm, John B wrote:

Eh? On 3+2 trains like (most) 319s and (all?) 321s, there's nowhere to
stand where you're not in the way of *everyone*. On narrow-seat wide-
aisle 2+2 trains like the LO 313s and the SWT 455s, you can stand in
the aisle and there's still room for people to go past you. Surely
that's an improvement...?

That is, but longitudinal is not - I find that being right in front of
people feels a lot more "in the way" than by the side of a (2+2) seat.

Each to their own, I guess - having spent a few years commuting on the
deep Tube, I've no problem with standing in front of people
longitudinally. Which is lucky, as otherwise I'd doubtless have been
lynched by angry 'MOVE DOWN THE CAR!"-ers. I suspect most of LO's
North London-dwelling audience will have a similar take on matters...

A way to avoid this would be 3+2 in 2/3 of the coach and no seating at
all in the other third, thus giving (like the SWT 455s) a large
standback area by the doors. *Twice the size of the SWT ones may be
better.

I really don't think 3+2 would be appropriate anywhere, given the
loadings and rapid emptying/filling that you get on LO. Agreed that
2+2 plus wider door standing areas might also have worked.

DIGRESSION: anyone know whether the 378s are actually running today?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Jul 13, 12:14*pm, John B wrote:

On Jul 13, 11:56*am, Neil *Williams wrote:

On Jul 13, 11:52*am, John B wrote:

Removing the 3rd seat from the 313s (making them 2+2 with a wide
aisle) has significantly improved the travelling experience, on the
couple of times I've used full NLL trains since they made the change.
I'm sure that longitudinal seating will be similarly helpful.

One thing I really dislike about it is that there is nowhere to stand
where you're not in the way of someone.

Perhaps having a large open standback area with no seats at all, but
then 3+2 seating further in, would be better?

Eh? On 3+2 trains like (most) 319s and (all?) 321s, there's nowhere to
stand where you're not in the way of *everyone*. On narrow-seat wide-
aisle 2+2 trains like the LO 313s and the SWT 455s, you can stand in
the aisle and there's still room for people to go past you. Surely
that's an improvement...?

Agreed. Perhaps in particular the context of the NLL route here is
important - lots of people are both getting off and on at each stop.
This isn't about whisking people into and then back out of town, where
there's a predominant flow. The flow is all over the place (yes, there
are some patterns, but it's still very varied). The WLL is like this a
bit. The DC Line less so, but that picture is complicated by the
Bakerloo line and also by the fast services from Watford Jn, Bushey
and Harrow & Wealdstone.