http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8147134.stm

I wonder if they'll actually enter passenger service today as well?

Paul

"Paul Scott" wrote in message

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8147134.stm

I wonder if they'll actually enter passenger service today as well?

I love the way that BBC London thinks that the North London line is "the
northern part of the network". Tell that to the citizens of Richmond!

On 13 July, 10:23, "Recliner" wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote in message



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8147134.stm

I wonder if they'll actually enter passenger service today as well?

I love the way that BBC London thinks that the North London line is "the
northern part of the network". Tell that to the citizens of Richmond!

That and the wording implies there will be 24 new trains introduced
this week (I assume they mean 24 services will be operated with the
two units so far accepted). Also they claim that they'll be the first
new trains introduced in 30 years. Well, the lines havn't had new
trains since the 1950s when the 501s were introduced to the DC and
North London lines, the 313s certainly wern't new when they arrived.

On Jul 13, 10:23*am, "Recliner" wrote:

I love the way that BBC London thinks that the North London line is "the
northern part of the network". Tell that to the citizens of Richmond!

And will they be popular when they'll reduce the number of seats? I'm
not convinced by the use of longitudinal seating on suburban EMUs at
all, particularly not when platforms are so short and money should be
spent on lengthening them properly.

The planned continuing of 2-car DMUs on the Goblin is nothing short of
a joke.

Neil

"Neil Williams" wrote in message

On Jul 13, 10:23 am, "Recliner" wrote:

I love the way that BBC London thinks that the North London line is
"the northern part of the network". Tell that to the citizens of
Richmond!

And will they be popular when they'll reduce the number of seats? I'm
not convinced by the use of longitudinal seating on suburban EMUs at
all, particularly not when platforms are so short and money should be
spent on lengthening them properly.

From my occasional travels on the NLL, I get the impression that most of
the pax are only travelling a few stops, so having to stand may not be
too unacceptable. Although you're right that these are technically
suburban EMUs, in practise they seem to be used more like inner London
Tube services, so having similar seating may be OK. I think it's less
acceptable to have longitudinal seating on longer distance S stock
routes (anywhere beyond Harrow).

On Jul 13, 11:11*am, "Recliner" wrote:
From my occasional travels on the NLL, I get the impression that most of
the pax are only travelling a few stops, so having to stand may not be
too unacceptable. Although you're right that these are technically
suburban EMUs, in practise they seem to be used more like inner London
Tube services, so having similar seating may be OK. I think it's less
acceptable to have longitudinal seating on longer distance S stock
routes (anywhere beyond Harrow).

When I used to commute peak-hours on the NLL (Highbury to Frognal),
the issue was being able to physically get on the train. Seats were a
very long way from a priority for anyone.

Removing the 3rd seat from the 313s (making them 2+2 with a wide
aisle) has significantly improved the travelling experience, on the
couple of times I've used full NLL trains since they made the change.
I'm sure that longitudinal seating will be similarly helpful.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Jul 13, 11:52*am, John B wrote:

Removing the 3rd seat from the 313s (making them 2+2 with a wide
aisle) has significantly improved the travelling experience, on the
couple of times I've used full NLL trains since they made the change.
I'm sure that longitudinal seating will be similarly helpful.

One thing I really dislike about it is that there is nowhere to stand
where you're not in the way of someone.

Perhaps having a large open standback area with no seats at all, but
then 3+2 seating further in, would be better?

Neil

On Jul 13, 11:52*am, John B wrote:

On Jul 13, 11:11*am, "Recliner" wrote:

From my occasional travels on the NLL, I get the impression that most of
the pax are only travelling a few stops, so having to stand may not be
too unacceptable. Although you're right that these are technically
suburban EMUs, in practise they seem to be used more like inner London
Tube services, so having similar seating may be OK. I think it's less
acceptable to have longitudinal seating on longer distance S stock
routes (anywhere beyond Harrow).

When I used to commute peak-hours on the NLL (Highbury to Frognal),
the issue was being able to physically get on the train. Seats were a
very long way from a priority for anyone.

Removing the 3rd seat from the 313s (making them 2+2 with a wide
aisle) has significantly improved the travelling experience, on the
couple of times I've used full NLL trains since they made the change.
I'm sure that longitudinal seating will be similarly helpful.

Agreed. There'll undoubtedly be copious comment on these newsgroups to
the effect that this signals the end of the world - however I doubt
any of those making such comments will ever have travelled on the NLL
in the crush hours (and the same applies to a slightly lesser extend
the WLL). If people are going to be indignant about this, I'd heartily
recommend they actually go and experience it for real.

Additionally, as Recliner has said, the NLL and WLL at least are
heavily used for relatively short hops - few passengers are making
anything like end-to-end journeys, especially during the peaks (that
comment applies only to the NLL - the WLL is so short that whilst many
are making an end-to-end journey, it's still a short hop). The NLL
does indeed have strong similarities to a Tube line, and the WLL
service would if it were more frequent (which it will be).

I admit I'm less familiar with the DC Lines service in particular
during peak times, so perhaps the seating arrangements might cause
some consternation up that way. The ELL meanwhile will perhaps be a
bit of a mix between the NLL and DC Lines - I'd expect it to be very
heavily used towards the centre in particular for short hops ala the
NLL, but it might also have some of the characteristics of the DC
Lines in that it stretches out to a town centre on the edge of London
(i.e. Croydon). We'll see how things work out and how the seating goes
down when extended ELL services start next year.

But I'd strongly urge people to consider the layout in the context of
(a) the route the new trains will be running on and (b) the issues
with crush-loading that it experiences. And go for a ride on the NLL
at busy times... if you dare!

"John B" wrote

Removing the 3rd seat from the 313s (making them 2+2 with a wide
aisle) has significantly improved the travelling experience, on the
couple of times I've used full NLL trains since they made the change.
I'm sure that longitudinal seating will be similarly helpful.

How do the number of (longitudinal) seats in a 4-car 378 compare with the
number of (transverse 2+2) seats in a 313 as currently used on LO?

Peter

On 13 July, 11:07, Neil Williams wrote:
On Jul 13, 10:23*am, "Recliner" wrote:

I love the way that BBC London thinks that the North London line is "the
northern part of the network". Tell that to the citizens of Richmond!

And will they be popular when they'll reduce the number of seats? *I'm
not convinced by the use of longitudinal seating on suburban EMUs at
all, particularly not when platforms are so short and money should be
spent on lengthening them properly.

The planned continuing of 2-car DMUs on the Goblin is nothing short of
a joke.


If it allows them to double the frequency on GOBLIN, then I'm all for
2 car units (to start with). A 2-car unit every 15 mins is preferable
to a 3 car unit every 30 mins, although the increased frequency will
probably lead to a need for longer trains as demand builds up. If DfT
and TfL ever get the money sorted out, electrification and 4 car 378
units would then appear.