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Old July 13th 09, 10:08 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default 378s to be unveiled today - BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8147134.stm

I wonder if they'll actually enter passenger service today as well?

Paul



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Old July 13th 09, 10:23 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default 378s to be unveiled today - BBC

"Paul Scott" wrote in message

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8147134.stm

I wonder if they'll actually enter passenger service today as well?


I love the way that BBC London thinks that the North London line is "the
northern part of the network". Tell that to the citizens of Richmond!


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Old July 13th 09, 10:51 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default 378s to be unveiled today - BBC

On 13 July, 10:23, "Recliner" wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote in message



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8147134.stm


I wonder if they'll actually enter passenger service today as well?


I love the way that BBC London thinks that the North London line is "the
northern part of the network". Tell that to the citizens of Richmond!


That and the wording implies there will be 24 new trains introduced
this week (I assume they mean 24 services will be operated with the
two units so far accepted). Also they claim that they'll be the first
new trains introduced in 30 years. Well, the lines havn't had new
trains since the 1950s when the 501s were introduced to the DC and
North London lines, the 313s certainly wern't new when they arrived.
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Old July 13th 09, 11:07 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default 378s to be unveiled today - BBC

On Jul 13, 10:23*am, "Recliner" wrote:

I love the way that BBC London thinks that the North London line is "the
northern part of the network". Tell that to the citizens of Richmond!


And will they be popular when they'll reduce the number of seats? I'm
not convinced by the use of longitudinal seating on suburban EMUs at
all, particularly not when platforms are so short and money should be
spent on lengthening them properly.

The planned continuing of 2-car DMUs on the Goblin is nothing short of
a joke.

Neil
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Old July 13th 09, 11:11 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default 378s to be unveiled today - BBC

"Neil Williams" wrote in message

On Jul 13, 10:23 am, "Recliner" wrote:

I love the way that BBC London thinks that the North London line is
"the northern part of the network". Tell that to the citizens of
Richmond!


And will they be popular when they'll reduce the number of seats? I'm
not convinced by the use of longitudinal seating on suburban EMUs at
all, particularly not when platforms are so short and money should be
spent on lengthening them properly.


From my occasional travels on the NLL, I get the impression that most of
the pax are only travelling a few stops, so having to stand may not be
too unacceptable. Although you're right that these are technically
suburban EMUs, in practise they seem to be used more like inner London
Tube services, so having similar seating may be OK. I think it's less
acceptable to have longitudinal seating on longer distance S stock
routes (anywhere beyond Harrow).




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Old July 13th 09, 11:31 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default 378s to be unveiled today - BBC

On 13 July, 11:07, Neil Williams wrote:
On Jul 13, 10:23*am, "Recliner" wrote:

I love the way that BBC London thinks that the North London line is "the
northern part of the network". Tell that to the citizens of Richmond!


And will they be popular when they'll reduce the number of seats? *I'm
not convinced by the use of longitudinal seating on suburban EMUs at
all, particularly not when platforms are so short and money should be
spent on lengthening them properly.

The planned continuing of 2-car DMUs on the Goblin is nothing short of
a joke.


If it allows them to double the frequency on GOBLIN, then I'm all for
2 car units (to start with). A 2-car unit every 15 mins is preferable
to a 3 car unit every 30 mins, although the increased frequency will
probably lead to a need for longer trains as demand builds up. If DfT
and TfL ever get the money sorted out, electrification and 4 car 378
units would then appear.
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Old July 13th 09, 11:52 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default 378s to be unveiled today - BBC

On Jul 13, 11:11*am, "Recliner" wrote:
From my occasional travels on the NLL, I get the impression that most of
the pax are only travelling a few stops, so having to stand may not be
too unacceptable. Although you're right that these are technically
suburban EMUs, in practise they seem to be used more like inner London
Tube services, so having similar seating may be OK. I think it's less
acceptable to have longitudinal seating on longer distance S stock
routes (anywhere beyond Harrow).


When I used to commute peak-hours on the NLL (Highbury to Frognal),
the issue was being able to physically get on the train. Seats were a
very long way from a priority for anyone.

Removing the 3rd seat from the 313s (making them 2+2 with a wide
aisle) has significantly improved the travelling experience, on the
couple of times I've used full NLL trains since they made the change.
I'm sure that longitudinal seating will be similarly helpful.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org
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Old July 13th 09, 11:55 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default 378s to be unveiled today - BBC

On Jul 13, 11:31*am, Andy wrote:
The planned continuing of 2-car DMUs on the Goblin is nothing short of
a joke.


If it allows them to double the frequency on GOBLIN, then I'm all for
2 car units (to start with). A 2-car unit every 15 mins is preferable
to a 3 car unit every 30 mins, although the increased frequency will
probably lead to a need for longer trains as demand builds up. If DfT
and TfL ever get the money sorted out, electrification and 4 car 378
units would then appear.


Presumably the logic is that if we're extending the GOBLIN platforms
it might as well be to 4 cars (which'd be either 2x172 or 1x378
depending on electrification status), hence ordering and carrying out
work for 3-car 172s would be completely pointless.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org
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Old July 13th 09, 11:56 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default 378s to be unveiled today - BBC

On Jul 13, 11:52*am, John B wrote:

Removing the 3rd seat from the 313s (making them 2+2 with a wide
aisle) has significantly improved the travelling experience, on the
couple of times I've used full NLL trains since they made the change.
I'm sure that longitudinal seating will be similarly helpful.


One thing I really dislike about it is that there is nowhere to stand
where you're not in the way of someone.

Perhaps having a large open standback area with no seats at all, but
then 3+2 seating further in, would be better?

Neil
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Old July 13th 09, 12:10 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default 378s to be unveiled today - BBC

On 13 July, 11:55, John B wrote:
Presumably the logic is that if we're extending the GOBLIN platforms
it might as well be to 4 cars (which'd be either 2x172 or 1x378
depending on electrification status), hence ordering and carrying out
work for 3-car 172s would be completely pointless.


No, three car 172s are definitely the plan, but the idea is that the
other committed capacity increases will delay the necessity of three
car trains for some time.

Peak capacity goes up by 33% when they introduce the 4 tph timetable
at the end of this year, and a further "30%"* when they introduce the
two car 172s some time in 2010, then at some later date three car 172s
will be introduced.

(Using these numbers, four car 172s every 15 minutes would have 3.5
times the capacity of the current service, which is simply not
justified by current or any foreseeable near-future demand)

U

(* this is TfL's number for 150 vs 172 capacity)


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