On Jul 13, 12:10*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
Presumably the logic is that if we're extending the GOBLIN platforms
it might as well be to 4 cars (which'd be either 2x172 or 1x378
depending on electrification status), hence ordering and carrying out
work for 3-car 172s would be completely pointless.

No, three car 172s are definitely the plan, but the idea is that the
other committed capacity increases will delay the necessity of three
car trains for some time.

Interesting. I have to admit that LO plans have changed so much I've
now got more or less no idea what's envisaged - I thought the medium-
term plan was 4-car GOBLIN trains running through to Clapham, have
they now been dropped?

Peak capacity goes up by 33% when they introduce the 4 tph timetable
at the end of this year, and a further "30%"* when they introduce the
two car 172s some time in 2010, then at some later date three car 172s
will be introduced.

(Using these numbers, four car 172s every 15 minutes would have 3.5
times the capacity of the current service, which is simply not
justified by current or any foreseeable near-future demand)

(* this is TfL's number for 150 vs 172 capacity)

I also thought the 172s were going to be fairly conventional 2+2 wide-
aisle train layout, rather than longitudinally seated like the 378s -
is that wrong too? Otherwise, I'm struggling to see how they'd have
much more nominal capacity than the 150s. Are there any pictures/mock-
ups of the LO 172s available?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote:

I also thought the 172s were going to be fairly conventional 2+2 wide-
aisle train layout, rather than longitudinally seated like the 378s -
is that wrong too? Otherwise, I'm struggling to see how they'd have
much more nominal capacity than the 150s. Are there any pictures/mock-
ups of the LO 172s available?

I'm sure that has been the understanding in the past, particularly because
the LO 172s were always intended to be passed on elsewhere relatively soon
(in railway terms of course). IIRC they were also always going to be leased
from one of the mainstream Roscos for that reason, rather than owned by TfL.
(Although that subsequently changed and a new Rosco emerged for the
dedicated LO stock).

Paul

On 13 July, 12:17, John B wrote:
Interesting. I have to admit that LO plans have changed so much I've
now got more or less no idea what's envisaged - I thought the medium-
term plan was 4-car GOBLIN trains running through to Clapham, have
they now been dropped?

I would think definitely until electrification occurs.

I also thought the 172s were going to be fairly conventional 2+2 wide-
aisle train layout, rather than longitudinally seated like the 378s -
is that wrong too? Otherwise, I'm struggling to see how they'd have
much more nominal capacity than the 150s. Are there any pictures/mock-
ups of the LO 172s available?

They're 23m vs 20m per car and I think the cab takes up less length.
The 150s were still 3+2 when I got this number, which may account for
the rest of the difference.

U