On Jul 14, 11:27 am, Tom Barry wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

On Jul 13, 8:45 pm, "neverwas" wrote:

This has been accompanied by a new London Overground 'microsite' on
the TfL website, which sings the praises of LO and the routes they
operate:

Oddly they have used the (Google) map locations which appear to come
from nationalrail.co.uk rather than the ones with the tube symbol. So
some of the markers are way out: eg Homerton is marked about 300m East
of its proper location.

I think the use of Google Maps might possibly be a result of the
leaner TfL marketing operation post-Bozza cutbacks. I do think it
looks a bit cheap, though I'm sure it could be defended as making use
of free/low-cost tools that are out there etc.

Whatever the reason, it's got some obvious crap - they've got Westfield
located in the residential area of Shepherd's Bush north of Uxbridge
Road and west of the H&C bridge. The Emirates Stadium is moved a few
hundred yards east, too. If this is an example, the Bozza view of what
Londoners are interested in appears to be markets, shopping centres,
sport, healthy open air and the history of the upper classes.

Also, 'shopping' is defined as 'big shopping centre' or 'market' rather
than 'large collection of shops in a town centre conveniently near an
Overground station so you can leave the car at home', such as Richmond.
Are there really only eight places you can shop near LO stations?
It's one thing being cheap (and I do love Google Maps for knocking up
quick illustrations of things), it's another not doing the basic
research or apparently having much idea of what you're trying to achieve.

[some of them are rather tenuous, too - Syon House isn't exactly near an
Overground station, it's about a two mile hike from Gunnersbury, yet
they miss out Hampstead Heath, which has an LO station named after it]

Perhaps we should do our own?! (Says he who has embarrassingly little
experience of knocking things up on Google Maps... afraid that my
preference for 'conventional' A-Z style cartography probably rather
blinded me to the possibilities of Google Mappery for quite a while.
Seems I might be something of a Luddite!)

The NLL (and WLL) are of course great for hacking round London and
getting to lots of interesting places. The NLL is a most fascinating
route!

Mizter T wrote:


Perhaps we should do our own?! (Says he who has embarrassingly little
experience of knocking things up on Google Maps... afraid that my
preference for 'conventional' A-Z style cartography probably rather
blinded me to the possibilities of Google Mappery for quite a while.
Seems I might be something of a Luddite!)

I've done a number for my own amusement, the Boris Airport one got quite
well received. Should be quite possible, although the buttons to switch
between various views are more intricate (and I haven't got a server to
run them on).

What we'd need would be a list of interesting things to see within, say,
half a mile (or an easy bus ride) of an LO station, plus good shopping
areas, sporting facilities, cinemas and anything people might normally
drive to that you can say 'look, you can get there on shiny new trains
for quite reasonable fares'.

The NLL (and WLL) are of course great for hacking round London and
getting to lots of interesting places. The NLL is a most fascinating
route!

Yes, it's just annoying how badly it integrates with all the lines it
crosses! You could hardly have done worse deliberately (particularly
the Northern and Piccadilly, for the way they manage to avoid
interchanging properly with both the NLL *and* the GOBLIN).

Tom

"Tom Barry" wrote

Yes, it's just annoying how badly it integrates with all the lines it
crosses! You could hardly have done worse deliberately (particularly the
Northern and Piccadilly, for the way they manage to avoid interchanging
properly with both the NLL *and* the GOBLIN).

I agree that the Goblin doesn't connect well, other than at its ends and
with the Victoria at Blackhorse Road. But the NLL isn't as bad as you seem
to imply. Hackney Central/Hackney Downs are very close. At Highbury &
Islington there's a connection with the Victoria and Northern City lines,
which themselves connect with the GNML and the Piccadilly at Finsbury Park.
Camden Road is close to Camden Town, and it is impracticable to make great
improvements, though a lot could be done to improve interchange at West
Hampstead.

There does seem to be a need for a passenger service between Willesden
Junction and Ealing Broadway, as well as Slow Line platforms at Willesden
Junction.

Peter

Peter Masson wrote:

Hackney Central/Hackney Downs are very close.

I doubt if it's a fun walk after dark.

On Jul 14, 2:53*pm, "Basil Jet"
wrote:

Peter Masson wrote:

Hackney Central/Hackney Downs are very close.

I doubt if it's a fun walk after dark.

It's alright. However the difference between the staffed, clean and
evidently cared for LO station at Hackney Central and the unstaffed
Hackney Downs, with it's grotty little entrance on Dalston Lane that
feels more like it was an afterthought or a subsidiary or side
entrance, is quite noticeable. Which is stupid really, as Hackney
Downs to Liverpool Street has metro-esque frequencies.

Were there not some plans to somehow link the stations up directly?
Whatever, the entrance situation at Hackney Downs can and should be
radically improved (basically totally rebuilt - perhaps with the
entrance directly under the bridge if it's possible to knowk through
the brickwork there), and it should be staffed at all times too.

On 14 July, 15:15, Mizter T wrote:
On Jul 14, 2:53*pm, "Basil Jet"

wrote:
Peter Masson wrote:

Hackney Central/Hackney Downs are very close.

I doubt if it's a fun walk after dark.

It's alright. However the difference between the staffed, clean and
evidently cared for LO station at Hackney Central and the unstaffed
Hackney Downs, with it's grotty little entrance on Dalston Lane that
feels more like it was an afterthought or a subsidiary or side
entrance, is quite noticeable. Which is stupid really, as Hackney
Downs to Liverpool Street has metro-esque frequencies.

Were there not some plans to somehow link the stations up directly?
Whatever, the entrance situation at Hackney Downs can and should be
radically improved (basically totally rebuilt - perhaps with the
entrance directly under the bridge if it's possible to knowk through
the brickwork there), and it should be staffed at all times too.

Yep - it's not the nicest walk (pretty rough blocks on once side) but
in the 5 years I lived in the neighbourhood I walked between the
stations regularly at all times of day and night, and never had the
slightest problem.

Fully agree on the naffness of Hackney Downs's (eats shoots and
leaves?) entrance, and wish that they could solve the problem of the
short-walk-but-not-really-an-interchange with Central. What about a
more radical solution of closing the Downs station and building new
platforms above the NLL? (I appreciate how unlikely this would be to
ever be implemented....)

snip
It's alright
snip
Yep - it's not the nicest walk (pretty rough blocks on once side) but
in the 5 years I lived in the neighbourhood I walked between the
stations regularly at all times of day and night, and never had the
slightest problem.

I too agree but would add that waiting on the platform at Hackney Downs
can be a bit more perturbing.

Also, without wanting to be a bore, may I mention that Hackney Downs is
another station Google maps shows in the wrong place? A stranger to the
station might well think from the map they have to go along Institute
Place; and that is what Google directions indicate.

--
R

There does seem to be a need for a passenger service between Willesden
Junction and Ealing Broadway

Peter

Interesting suggestion. While I don't disagree can you justify it? And,
are you suggesting just that short hop or using that piece of track as part
of something bigger (e.g. Barking (by electrifying Goblin) to Heathrow)?

"Graham Harrison" wrote in message
...
There does seem to be a need for a passenger service between Willesden
Junction and Ealing Broadway

Interesting suggestion. While I don't disagree can you justify it?
And, are you suggesting just that short hop or using that piece of track
as part of something bigger (e.g. Barking (by electrifying Goblin) to
Heathrow)?
I doubt that there'd be enough passengers to justify taking Heathrow paths
away from HEx and HConn/Crossrail. But how about Barking - Gospel Oak (would
need rebuilding so that through trains could call) - Willesden Junction -
Ealing Broadway - Greenford. There would be same platform interchange at
Ealing Broadway for Heathrow, and it would give a better route to Heathrow
from the FCC Bedford line and the Jubilee Stanmore line (via West
Hampstead), and, at least if Willesden Junction were ever to gain Slow Line
platforms, the Milton Keynes line.

IMHO curtailing the Ealing Greenford line to a shuttle from West Ealing will
be a considerable disbenefit - passengers for the LUL District Line will
have to change twice at West Ealing and Ealing Broadway, though passengers
for the Central Line will be able to circulate the other way via Greenford.

Peter

Peter Masson wrote:

But how about Barking -
Gospel Oak (would need rebuilding so that through trains could call)
- Willesden Junction - Ealing Broadway - Greenford.

Gospel Oak is one of the worst sited stations in London - its catchment area
is a quarter parkland and a quarter cut off by other railways. Building
platforms at Tufnell Park (with entrances at both ends of Churchill Road)
and running the Greblin through Gospel Oak without stopping must have a
better cost-benefit ratio.

IMHO curtailing the Ealing Greenford line to a shuttle from West
Ealing will be a considerable disbenefit - passengers for the LUL
District Line will have to change twice at West Ealing and Ealing
Broadway, though passengers for the Central Line will be able to
circulate the other way via Greenford.

But the curtailment must surely be to make capacity for other trains between
West Ealing and Ealing Broadway, and your plan doesn't address that.