On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:34:11 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:02:28 +0100
"Recliner" wrote:
Mr Johnson said: "These writhing whales of the road have swung their
hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time."

Yes, because the obvious enviromental way to go is replace N bendy buses
with N*2 normal buses to maintain the same service.

I feel unusually annoyed about this... They are some of the best buses
ever to be used in London or anywhere else, in my controversial
opinion.

Genius decision Boris. Perhaps we should go back to steam trains on the
underground while you're at it?

He said the new buses will emit less CO2 than the bendy buses, which

Less per bus, but I suspect when you add up the total service it'll be
somewhat more.

Absolutely... see how the PVR has gone up - but will it be enough?

will be sent back "to their spiritual home, an airfield in the Midlands"
next week.

Ie perfectly servicable vehicles are about to be mothballed for no good
reason other than a bunch of whining idiot cyclists and a grandstanding
politician.

Well, it was in his campaign and manifesto... So TfL (=we) will pay
for this electioneering bolx and will pay again for his very own Grand
Projet, the BorisBus.

Richard.

On 24 July, 23:41, Richard

I feel unusually annoyed about this... They are some of the best buses
ever to be used in London or anywhere else, in my controversial
opinion.

I agree entirely. I think it is odd and very wrong that one man's
fatwa could get rid of them.

"Offramp" wrote in message

On 24 July, 23:41, Richard

I feel unusually annoyed about this... They are some of the best
buses ever to be used in London or anywhere else, in my controversial
opinion.

I agree entirely. I think it is odd and very wrong that one man's
fatwa could get rid of them.

Well, it was one of his clearest manifesto commitments, so it's fair to
assume at least some of his voters also approved of the idea.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:35:54 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote:

"Offramp" wrote in message

On 24 July, 23:41, Richard

I feel unusually annoyed about this... They are some of the best
buses ever to be used in London or anywhere else, in my controversial
opinion.

I agree entirely. I think it is odd and very wrong that one man's
fatwa could get rid of them.

Well, it was one of his clearest manifesto commitments, so it's fair to
assume at least some of his voters also approved of the idea.


Perhaps the swing voters who gave Boris victory are not bus users?

To be honest, I cannot imagine that many bus users would have voted
for him, but many car drivers will have been seduced by his promises
to remove Bendy Buses from London's roads and to abandon the western
extension of the Congestion Charge zone.

Paul Corfield wrote:

Well, it was one of his clearest manifesto commitments, so it's fair to
assume at least some of his voters also approved of the idea.

Possibly but how many of them run in Barnet, Bromley, Croydon, Harrow,
Hillingdon, Bexley, Sutton etc? I think the number is a great fat
zero [1].

Well when campaigning for Boris in Tower Hamlets and Newham, we found many
voters who heavily approved of the policy based on their direct experience
of the 25 (and before anyone jumps in, no this wasn't people in the docks
end of the two boroughs but those actually living around the route). Now
some of this may be the general problems the 25 has, but people believe it
was better when it was a double decker, and indeed IMHO on the
Ilford-Stratford section many passengers have shown a clear preference for
the 86. Certainly the idea that the bendy bus is primarily hated by those
who don't have any near them is a myth.

There isn't a universal bendy experience but is the same bus design really
suitable for both Waterloo to Victoria/London Bridge and central London to
outer suburbs?

[1] not entirely certain where Sudbury sits borough wise but the 18
stretches that far so may be more zero.

It's the point where Ealing, Brent and Harrow meet and the name is used in
all three boroughs. Very much the Crystal Palace of north west London.

On Jul 27, 7:04*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
Well when campaigning for Boris in Tower Hamlets and Newham, we found many
voters who heavily approved of the policy based on their direct experience
of the 25 (and before anyone jumps in, no this wasn't people in the docks
end of the two boroughs but those actually living around the route). Now
some of this may be the general problems the 25 has, but people believe it
was better when it was a double decker, and indeed IMHO on the
Ilford-Stratford section many passengers have shown a clear preference for
the 86. Certainly the idea that the bendy bus is primarily hated by those
who don't have any near them is a myth.

No - that's only evidence that the idea that the bendy bus is *only*
hated by those who don't use them. It's entirely consistent with the
idea, which is almost certainly the correct one, that most bendy-
haters don't use them but a small proportion do (and indeed, that said
small proportion are blaming the use of bendies for more systemic
problems like 'the bus is full' and 'the bus takes ages...)

There isn't a universal bendy experience but is the same bus design really
suitable for both Waterloo to Victoria/London Bridge and central London to
outer suburbs?

That's certainly what your candidate of choice seems to believe.

(more seriously, it probably is true that although the bendy 25 is a
very good bus for Whitechapel Road, it's less good for outer parts of
Newham. Similarly, the 29's bendy capacity is needed between Warren
Street and Manor House, but again a decker with more seats and less
total capacity would be better once you get to Wood Green.)

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

That's certainly what your candidate of choice seems to believe.

(more seriously, it probably is true that although the bendy 25 is a
very good bus for Whitechapel Road, it's less good for outer parts of
Newham. Similarly, the 29's bendy capacity is needed between Warren
Street and Manor House, but again a decker with more seats and less
total capacity would be better once you get to Wood Green.)

--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org

The 29 is awfully busy along the whole route I feel, even after Manor
House it stays incredibly busy; and gets busier even because of the
big gap between Manor House and Turnpike Lane tube stations that is
Harringay.
The problem is simply Green Lanes itself which is ridiculously
congested and always the slowest part of the route, but I can't think
of much of an alternative, given that the only parallel road is also
quite busy (Wightman Rd)

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:37:59 -0700 (PDT)
Lucas wrote:
The problem is simply Green Lanes itself which is ridiculously
congested and always the slowest part of the route, but I can't think
of much of an alternative, given that the only parallel road is also
quite busy (Wightman Rd)

Green lanes is only congested because of idiotic traffic light phasing
and people who park in bus stops so the bus stops in the road and blocks
the traffic. Solve those 2 issues and it would flow nicely.

B2003

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009, Lucas wrote:

That's certainly what your candidate of choice seems to believe.

(more seriously, it probably is true that although the bendy 25 is a
very good bus for Whitechapel Road, it's less good for outer parts of
Newham. Similarly, the 29's bendy capacity is needed between Warren
Street and Manor House, but again a decker with more seats and less
total capacity would be better once you get to Wood Green.)

The 29 is awfully busy along the whole route I feel, even after Manor
House it stays incredibly busy; and gets busier even because of the
big gap between Manor House and Turnpike Lane tube stations that is
Harringay.
The problem is simply Green Lanes itself which is ridiculously
congested and always the slowest part of the route, but I can't think
of much of an alternative, given that the only parallel road is also
quite busy (Wightman Rd)

Fit them with amphibious gear and steam up the New River.

tom

--
There's no future.

Lucas wrote:

The 29 is awfully busy along the whole route I feel, even after Manor
House it stays incredibly busy; and gets busier even because of the
big gap between Manor House and Turnpike Lane tube stations that is
Harringay.
The problem is simply Green Lanes itself which is ridiculously
congested and always the slowest part of the route, but I can't think
of much of an alternative, given that the only parallel road is also
quite busy (Wightman Rd)

Introduce a new bus from Piccadilly Circus via Portland Place, Hampstead
Road, Junction Road and Tottenham Lane to Wood Green, extended at night to
Enfield. It should be quicker than the 29 day and night, so it will get most
of the long distance traffic. Cut the frequency of the 29, and terminate it
at Wood Green day and night. No-one going from Wood Green to Camden will
ever have to suffer Green Lanes again.