On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:52:14 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2009, MIG wrote:

Never mind class or party politics; what about "I don't like to have a
totally unsuitable vehicle blocking the pedestrian crossings, forcing me
to risk my life to get across the road"?

That's a problem with the drivers, not the buses, and is not restricted to
bendies, although of course it's worse with them.


There is obviously a greater chance that an individual bendy bus will
block a pedestrian crossing because of its greater length, but surely
there is also a lesser frequency of blocking because there are fewer
bendy buses needed for the same route capacity?

I suspect that the second at least partially compensates for the
first, and that the overall daily instances of blocking could well be
about the same.


Are there any real
problems with the bendies which are intrinsic to the bus itself?


Of course, the greater length, articulation and the rear section's
self-steering system make it different, but those differences are
amerliorated to a great extent by there being fewer buses needed for
the same capacity.

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:01:41 +0100
Bruce wrote:
Of course, the greater length, articulation and the rear section's
self-steering system make it different, but those differences are

They don't self steer, they follow a curve. Simple geometry which even
cyclists could understand if they bothered to try. Also the cut in on
a bendy bus rear section going around a corner is a shed load less than
on an HGV.

B2003

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:55:02 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Of course, the greater length, articulation and the rear section's
self-steering system make it different, but those differences are

They don't self steer, they follow a curve. Simple geometry which even
cyclists could understand if they bothered to try. Also the cut in on
a bendy bus rear section going around a corner is a shed load less than
on an HGV.

Are you being rude and patronising just for effect? I used to park
36ft rigid trucks in a car storage yard, reversing down a lane with
less than 3ft either side and brand new unregistered Jaguars one side
and brand new unregistered Porsches the other. I am pretty good at
knowing the handling and manoeuvring characteristics of various
vehicles. You should watch some time the back end of a bendy bus when
the driver changes lanes: it swings in remarkably sharply, and because
the thing is so long your options for dealing with it are pretty much
limited to braking sharply. This is simply not the case for most
other vehicles. The usual method of controlling risk from overtaking
drivers, which is road position, simply doesn't work.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:01:31 +0100
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
They don't self steer, they follow a curve. Simple geometry which even
cyclists could understand if they bothered to try. Also the cut in on
a bendy bus rear section going around a corner is a shed load less than
on an HGV.

Are you being rude and patronising just for effect? I used to park

So which part of "they follow a curve", "simple geometry" and "cut in less than
an HGV" is wrong then?

36ft rigid trucks in a car storage yard, reversing down a lane with
less than 3ft either side and brand new unregistered Jaguars one side

Bully for you.

And?

and brand new unregistered Porsches the other. I am pretty good at
knowing the handling and manoeuvring characteristics of various
vehicles. You should watch some time the back end of a bendy bus when
the driver changes lanes: it swings in remarkably sharply, and because

What , suddenly the laws of physics change and it doesn't follow the
expected curve?

the thing is so long your options for dealing with it are pretty much
limited to braking sharply. This is simply not the case for most

Or you could see that its coming and not get yourself into an awkward
situation in the first place. But hey, that would just be common sense,
something cyclists don't seem to be heavily endowed with...

B2003

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:28:01 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

So which part of "they follow a curve", "simple geometry" and "cut in less than
an HGV" is wrong then?

The articulation and other characteristics result in the tail moving
in much more sharply than is the case for, say, articulated lorries.
Plus a Class 1 driver tends to be more aware of that in the first
place and not drive as if the vehicle is only as long as the front
half.
the thing is so long your options for dealing with it are pretty much
limited to braking sharply. This is simply not the case for most

Or you could see that its coming and not get yourself into an awkward
situation in the first place. But hey, that would just be common sense,
something cyclists don't seem to be heavily endowed with...

For values of "see it coming" that require rear-facing eyes and values
of "awkward position" that include riding along a road minding your
own business.

But hey, I can see that you're not interested in acknowledging any
possible problems with bendy buses. I think that was the problem with
the woman from transport whatnot, too: if you determinedly write off
all criticism as being invalid, then of course you will see no valid
criticism.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:52:28 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

The articulation and other characteristics result in the tail moving
in much more sharply than is the case for, say, articulated lorries.


Rubbish. The steering is arranged to reduce cut in. In other words,
to make it cut in far less sharply than an articulated lorry.

You seem to have a grave misunderstanding of the dynamics of a bendy
bus. The fact that it hardly cuts in compared to an articulated lorry
should make it far easier to deal with. Not for you, obviously. ;-)

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:30:07 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

The articulation and other characteristics result in the tail moving
in much more sharply than is the case for, say, articulated lorries.

Rubbish. The steering is arranged to reduce cut in. In other words,
to make it cut in far less sharply than an articulated lorry.

That's not how it looks to cyclists overtaken by them. Perhaps the
drivers overcompensate by moving in when only the front wheel is past,
I don't know - I'm too busy avoiding being wiped out. This is not a
problem I *ever* have with artics, but then artic drivers tend to wait
until the entire vehicle is past before they even start to pull in.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:52:28 +0100
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
The articulation and other characteristics result in the tail moving
in much more sharply than is the case for, say, articulated lorries.

FFS , it has the same ratio of front to back section as van, car or rigid
pulling a trailer. And the tail doesn't "move in sharply". It moves in in
exactly the way anyone with more than a single braincell would expect it to do.
I've ridden on enough of them when I used to work in central london to know.

But hey, I can see that you're not interested in acknowledging any
possible problems with bendy buses. I think that was the problem with

The only problems are the poor drivers. Theres nothing wrong with the
bus itself. Its an articulated vehicle, nothing more.

B2003