On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:55:54 +0100
"David A Stocks" wrote:
Knowing how badly most web backends are written
We're talking about manual card transactions at a ticket machine. If you're

Err no, the poster I was replying to was talking about renewing online.

enough of a sucker to give out a credit/debit card PIN over the internet
then you're really f**ked.

Online banking requires it but I don't know about other sorts of online
transations - I don't do mail order.

B2003

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:09:41 -0700 (PDT)
Andy wrote:
When have you EVER put your PIN into a website to buy anything? You

Never, I don't do mail order.

B2003

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:16:02 -0700 (PDT)
Andy wrote:
Oh and to reinforce the point, if you are undertaking a 'customer
present' transaction, the PIN number is validated directly against the
card and not sent to any server. The card holds the PIN, not the bank.

If your card has a magnetic stripe on the back then your bank is probably
well aware of your PIN otherwise you'd never be able to use it in non
chip-and-pin cash machines in other countries.

B2003

wrote in message
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:55:54 +0100
"David A Stocks" wrote:
Knowing how badly most web backends are written
We're talking about manual card transactions at a ticket machine. If
you're

Err no, the poster I was replying to was talking about renewing
online.

enough of a sucker to give out a credit/debit card PIN over the
internet then you're really f**ked.

Online banking requires it but I don't know about other sorts of
online transations - I don't do mail order.

No, you don't need your card PIN for on-line banking -- you have a
different password for that (with probably more than 4 characters).

wrote in message
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:09:41 -0700 (PDT)
Andy wrote:
When have you EVER put your PIN into a website to buy anything? You

Never, I don't do mail order.

I suppose I'm asking for trouble here, but why do you not do any Web
shopping? I've been doing it for many years without problems.

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:27:06 +0100
"Recliner" wrote:
enough of a sucker to give out a credit/debit card PIN over the
internet then you're really f**ked.

Online banking requires it but I don't know about other sorts of
online transations - I don't do mail order.

No, you don't need your card PIN for on-line banking -- you have a
different password for that (with probably more than 4 characters).

You're right, I was thinking of the telephone/online banking PIN. My bank
requires that plus a passphrase.

B2003

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:28:55 +0100
"Recliner" wrote:
Never, I don't do mail order.

I suppose I'm asking for trouble here, but why do you not do any Web
shopping? I've been doing it for many years without problems.

I don't do any sort of mail order because either the parcel gets dumped in
the front garden while I'm at work and then gets wet or nicked, or I have to
go and collect it from some depot 10 miles away thats only open office hours
monday to friday. And when it goes wrong its down to the main post office to
send it back and wait 3 weeks for a response.

Been there, done all that, ******** to it. Shops are a damn sight better.

B2003

wrote:

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:16:02 -0700 (PDT)
Andy wrote:
Oh and to reinforce the point, if you are undertaking a 'customer
present' transaction, the PIN number is validated directly against the
card and not sent to any server. The card holds the PIN, not the bank.

If your card has a magnetic stripe on the back then your bank is probably
well aware of your PIN otherwise you'd never be able to use it in non
chip-and-pin cash machines in other countries.

When you get a new card the bank sends you the pin (and if a renewal
debit at least says it is the same as your current one)

--
Mark

On 2 Sep, 16:08, wrote:
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:55:54 +0100
"David A Stocks" wrote:

Knowing how badly most web backends are written
We're talking about manual card transactions at a ticket machine. If you're

Err no, the poster I was replying to was talking about renewing online.

enough of a sucker to give out a credit/debit card PIN over the internet
then you're really f**ked.

Online banking requires it but I don't know about other sorts of online
transations - I don't do mail order.


No online banking requires it either. You might have to use a small
electronic card-reader to get a verification number, or use a personal
website ID number, but at no point is your PIN ever sent over the
network.

On 2 Sep, 16:16, wrote:
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:16:02 -0700 (PDT)

Andy wrote:
Oh and to reinforce the point, if you are undertaking a 'customer
present' transaction, the PIN number is validated directly against the
card and not sent to any server. The card holds the PIN, not the bank.

If your card has a magnetic stripe on the back then your bank is probably
well aware of your PIN otherwise you'd never be able to use it in non
chip-and-pin cash machines in other countries.


Yes, but we were talking about UK on-line transactions, not foreign
ATMs. I know that the PIN is held by the bank, otherwise it would be
very hard for a reminder to be sent. However, in the UK the banks
don't remotely validate PINs for transactions anymore.