Sir Benjamin Nunn wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
rth.li...
On Sat, 5 Sep 2009, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sat, 5 Sep 2009 17:48:38 +0100, "Sir Benjamin Nunn"
wrote:

Anybody with half a brain could come up with new line ideas just by
looking
at a map.

Example:

Albert Line:

Arnos Grove
Alexandra Palace
Hornsey Central
Archway
Gospel Oak
Belsize Park
St. Johns Wood
Edgware Road
Lancaster Gate
Royal Albert Hall
South Kensington
Albert Bridge
Battersea
Clapham Junction
Wandsworth Common
Tooting Broadway
Tooting Junction
Mitcham

Ooh, we haven't had a Scheme on UTL in yonks. Duly mapped:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...820a7d99caba8f

Let me know if it doesn't match your vision.


Heh. I'd actually already done one on google maps:


http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...d8fb6aa53&z=11

Your version is slightly more direct.


An interesting alignment - not one I would have dreamed up.

No. It mostly seems to be an exercise in getting people from the suburbs
to places they don't want to go. The only stations you could describe as
being central are Edgware Road, Lancaster Gate and Royal Albert Hall -
none of which are significant commuter destinations. The Edgware Road stop
could serve Paddington Basin, of course. The RAH and South Ken stops would
be great for Albertopolis, including all the museums, plus Imperial
College, the RCA and various other educational institutions, and the RAH
itself, but i'm highly skeptical that there are enough jobs round there to
fill a tube line. The Battersea stop is too far west to serve the
developments round there. The line could serve as a feeder from the
suburbs to other tube lines that it crosses, but all the suburban stations
area already on lines which do that, or are useful lines in their own
right.

So, it serves Paddington Basin, a major cultural complex, and gives access
to other lines. That's not useless, but it can't justify a tube line.

However it's lovely to stick new tube lines in to the network but all
that happens if you push overall ridership up and up and up thereby
exacerbating your existing pinch points.

Ah, but this wouldn't be a problem with Sir Benjamin's line, seeing as how
no bugger would use it.



I'd use it!

Getting from Tooting/Mitcham to Central London takes ages. Getting to North
London (or indeed West or East London) is something you don't even want to
think about.

Clapham Junction doesn't have an LU service.

Tramlink only has one LU interchange, at the far end.

The walk from South Ken to the Albert Hall through the foot tunnel is
unpleasant.

All the radial limbs of the underground in North London lack lateral routes
providing interchanges.

The spacing of the stations would make this line a quick, direct
Victoria-style experience, as opposed to the
sluggishness of the Northern Line.



Interesting points. But what colour should this line be?


Here's another one I came up with that takes over bits and pieces of
existing infrastructure.

(see if you can spot which bits!)

Mill Hill East
Finchley Central
Muswell Hill
Hornsey Central
Crouch Hill
Finsbury Park
Drayton Park
Highbury & Islington
Essex Road
Old Street
Moorgate
Bank
Blackfriars
Waterloo
Vauxhall
Battersea Park
Clapham Junction
Wandsworth Town
East Putney
Roehampton


And again, what colour? (After all, TfL must be running out of clearly
distinct colours for the map. That's got to limit the number of
possible new lines.)

In uk.transport.london message f4e51a1c-3d0c-4c3d-8c66-a96f232af378@w10
g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, Sun, 6 Sep 2009 02:02:18, solar penguin
posted:

...
Crouch Hill
Finsbury Park
Drayton Park
Highbury & Islington
Essex Road
Old Street
Moorgate
Bank
...

And again, what colour? (After all, TfL must be running out of clearly
distinct colours for the map. That's got to limit the number of
possible new lines.)

Route it through Caledonian Road, and colour it tartan.

--
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Web URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
I think we need some lessons from Spaniards who seem to be able to
build new tram, Metro, rail and High Speed lines in about 3 years from
start to finish - even where they had to be driven through existing
city centres and link to existing lines. Progress in Madrid and
Barcelona seems very impressive - one day I'll get to see for myself.

Hmmmm

Having just spent 4 days in Madrid, the place is like a building site -
and a very unpleasant one at that.

Arrival at Barcelona this afternoon just reinforces my assertion that
they are currently rebuilding Spain.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:28:26 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald ]
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
I think we need some lessons from Spaniards who seem to be able to
build new tram, Metro, rail and High Speed lines in about 3 years from
start to finish - even where they had to be driven through existing
city centres and link to existing lines. Progress in Madrid and
Barcelona seems very impressive - one day I'll get to see for myself.

Hmmmm

Having just spent 4 days in Madrid, the place is like a building site -
and a very unpleasant one at that.

Arrival at Barcelona this afternoon just reinforces my assertion that
they are currently rebuilding Spain.

It's all to do with the recession. The bottom has dropped out of the
domestic housing market (especially that catering mainly for foreigners)
and so the building industry has a surfeit of workers of all skill
levels desperate for jobs at any salary; hence the civic projects can be
carried out more cheaply, and are being pushed ahead whilst the
situation lasts.

There are some Spanish practices the rest of Europe could learn from
(but then I'm biased, as Spain is my adopted country).






--
Bill Hayles

http://billnot.com

On Sep 10, 7:40*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:53:05 +0200, Bill Hayles
wrote:

On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:28:26 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald ]
wrote:
Arrival at Barcelona this afternoon just reinforces my assertion that
they are currently rebuilding Spain.

It's all to do with the recession. The bottom has dropped out of the
domestic housing market (especially that catering mainly for foreigners)
and so the building industry has a surfeit of workers of all skill
levels desperate for jobs at any salary; hence the civic projects can be
carried out more cheaply, and are being pushed ahead whilst the
situation lasts.

There are some Spanish practices the rest of Europe could learn from
(but then I'm biased, as Spain is my adopted country).

Care to elaborate as their ability to construct metro, tram and train
lines in next to no time (relatively speaking) is something I would
dearly love to understand? *There must be something in the planning,
regulatory or construction methodologies that allows them to make such
quick progress.

Not an expert, but: empty country, cheap land, cheap labour?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

I've now added much material to the web site. Please have a look:
On 4-Sep-2009, wrote:

www.bromptonroad.org.uk

wrote on 31 October 2009 16:41:34 ...
I've now added much material to the web site. Please have a look:
On 4-Sep-2009, wrote:

www.bromptonroad.org.uk

Some interesting historical stuff, but I can't see anything yet about
the costs/benefits of reopening. Without that, I'm afraid the answer is
"no".

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Richard J. wrote:
wrote on 31 October 2009 16:41:34 ...
I've now added much material to the web site. Please have a look:
On 4-Sep-2009, wrote:

www.bromptonroad.org.uk

Some interesting historical stuff, but I can't see anything yet about
the costs/benefits of reopening. Without that, I'm afraid the answer is
"no".

What's the deal with plans to re-open York Road?

On Nov 1, 5:29*pm, "
wrote:
What's the deal with plans to re-open York Road?

The consensus that I've seen in threads on u.t.l. and elsewhere is
that despite the opportunities for interchange with the NLL, the York
Road area is still too industrial and too lightly occupied to justify
the reconstruction of the station.

One pet project of mine is to expand the station to allow for
terminating services, with two new station tunnels on the outside for
through trains and the existing station tunnels used for terminating
services, with the existing crossover tunnel expanded to house a
scissors crossover and the old running lines converted into sidings.
It would be fantastically expensive, but it would solve once and for
all the chronic reliability and reversing problems experienced on the
Piccadilly Line west of King's Cross and also allow a more realistic
off-peak service to operate on the Picc north of King's Cross.

Failing that, reopening the station as-is would still be expensive,
but less so because the lift shafts descend all the way to platform
level, allowing for step-free access using the existing shafts.

On 2 Nov, 03:10, TheOneKEA wrote:
The consensus that I've seen in threads on u.t.l. and elsewhere is
that despite the opportunities for interchange with the NLL, the York
Road area is still too industrial and too lightly occupied to justify
the reconstruction of the station.

There was a very thorough feasibility study and business case produced
in 2005:
http://www.kingscrossenvironment.com...road-tube.html

It came to the conclusion that it would be cheap-ish (£40m all in) and
produce a large benefit for users of York Road but an almost equally
large disbenefit for passengers passing through, for a negligibly
small benefit overall. They also did some passenger behaviour
modelling and came to the conclusion that congestion at KXSP for
actually increase slightly, due to half the York Road passengers
interchanging there (which apparently produces more congestion than
them walking/busing to the Northern Ticket Hall), which wipes out even
the tiny benefit, for a spectacularly small BCR of 0.03.

(If it weren't for those two negatives, it'd have a BCR of about 14 by
my calculations)

U