level crosings on the LUL
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in message ...
Surely on LU the 4th rail would be dealt with in the same way as 3rd rail on
SR lines, it would just need a break (cable connected) in the conductor at a
LC?

Yes , but the point is its easier for trespassers to electrocute themselves
when the power rail is on the ground rather than overhead. Why anyone would
care about vandals being eliminated from the gene pool is anyones guess but
the HSE do.

B2003

level crosings on the LUL
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

I stand to be corrected but don't think there are any
[Tyne & Wear Airport Extension] LC that are not at
stations, and therefore the train is always stationary
with the driver able to sight the LC before he sets off again.

That only works in one direction!

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

level crosings on the LUL
 

In article , John Rowland
writes
"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

I stand to be corrected but don't think there are any
[Tyne & Wear Airport Extension] LC that are not at
stations, and therefore the train is always stationary
with the driver able to sight the LC before he sets off again.

That only works in one direction!

I think at these stations the platforms are actually staggered each
side of the crossing, so in fact it works in both directions, John!

--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

level crosings on the LUL
 

In message , John Rowland
writes

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

I stand to be corrected but don't think there are any
[Tyne & Wear Airport Extension] LC that are not at
stations, and therefore the train is always stationary
with the driver able to sight the LC before he sets off again.

That only works in one direction!

But you snipped Paul's first sentence in the above quote, which included
the words

all the stations seem to be split with the platforms on either
side of the level crossing.

I take that to mean ...

XXXXXXXXXXX
----------------- X ----------------
----------------- X ----------------
XXXXXXXXXX

Surely that would work in both directions?

--
Paul Terry

level crosings on the LUL
 

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , John Rowland
writes
"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

I stand to be corrected but don't think there are any
[Tyne & Wear Airport Extension] LC that are not at
stations, and therefore the train is always stationary
with the driver able to sight the LC before he sets off again.

That only works in one direction!

But you snipped Paul's first sentence in the above quote,
which included the words

all the stations seem to be split with the
platforms on either side of the level crossing.

[blush]

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

level crosings on the LUL
 

Paul Terry wrote:
writes
"Paul Scott" wrote...

I stand to be corrected but don't think there are any
[Tyne & Wear Airport Extension] LC that are not at
stations, and therefore the train is always stationary
with the driver able to sight the LC before he sets off again.

That only works in one direction!

But you snipped Paul's first sentence in the above quote, which included
the words

all the stations seem to be split with the platforms on either
side of the level crossing.

I take that to mean ...

XXXXXXXXXXX
----------------- X ----------------
----------------- X ----------------
XXXXXXXXXX

Surely that would work in both directions?

Sorry about the late response, but this intrigues me. Can anyone confirm
that that's what the setup really is? I ask because here in Adelaide
there are several split stations, but they're all...

XXXXXXXXXX
----------------- X ----------------
----------------- X ----------------
XXXXXXXXXXX

....which means that the traffic doesn't have to wait for as long.

level crosings on the LUL
 

"Aidan Stanger" wrote:

Sorry about the late response, but this intrigues me. Can anyone confirm
that that's what the setup really is?


When the Tyne & Wear Metro originally opened (in stages between 1980 and
1984), there were three level crossings on the system. Only two of these
were at stations - at Fawdon, and at Howdon. Both followed the pattern that
Paul described, with staggered platforms on either side of (and before) the
crossing, so that trains always stopped *before* crossing the roadway.

Fawdon was built from scratch (the line had been freight-only under BR, and
the previous station on the site - Coxlodge - had closed in 1929). Until it
was closed by BR in 1980, Howdon station had both platforms on the same side
of the crossing - when it reopened for the Metro in 1982, one platform had
been demolished and replaced by a new one before the crossing (the other
being retained, as it was already situated before the crossing). The third
level crossing on the system - at Kingston Park - did not have a station
when Metro services started on this section in 1981. I believe that trains
slowed, but did not stop, before crossing the roadway. However, in 1985 a
new station was opened here, and this followed the usual pattern - with
staggered platforms, each before the roadway.

All three crossings were and are "open" (ie with klaxons and flashing
lights, but without barriers). Those at Kingston Park and Fawdon were also
used by BR freight trains, which ran over this branch of the Metro until the
late 80s.


Policy must have changed over the years. When the system was extended from
Bank Foot to Airport in 1991, two more level crossings were added, and again
each was at a station - at Bank Foot (immediately beyond the former end of
the line), and at Callerton Parkway (the intermediate station on the new
extension). However, each station has *both* platforms on the same side of
the road. Airport-bound trains stop before crossing the roadway, and South
Shields-bound trains stop after crossing the roadway, at each location^.
IIRC, there is also at least one open bridleway crossing between stations on
this section.



I ask because here in Adelaide
there are several split stations, but they're all...

XXXXXXXXXX
----------------- X ----------------
----------------- X ----------------
XXXXXXXXXXX

...which means that the traffic doesn't have to wait for as long.

Why would traffic have to wait longer if they were split Fawdon-style?

Is it because the crossing has to be closed to road traffic before the train
arrives, and while it dwells in the platform? I've seen this before on
heavy rail (eg for London-bound trains at Higham's Park) - presumably
because the crossing is within the signal overlap of the station starting
signal, and therefore a train cannot be let into the platform until the
crossing is clear of road traffic in case the train overshoots.

At the three staggered stations on the T&W Metro (and also the other two
with level crossings, in the relevant direction!), trains can pull into
platforms while road traffic is still on the crossing. Lights and klaxons
don't start until a few seconds before the train completes its dwell time.
Presumably this is allowed because the platforms are set back about 50m from
the road, and because Metrocars are fitted with tramway-style magnetic track
brakes for emergency use - so bringing the relative risk of a train
overshooting onto a crossing down to acceptable levels. Hence, road traffic
delays are kept to a minimum.

Surely, with both platforms after the crossing (Adelaide-style), it is
sometimes necessary to keep the crossing closed to road traffic for an
extended period (or to close it twice in quick succession) when trains
approach from both directions roughly simultaneously? IIRC, on Tyneside in
these circumstances the train that arrived first is held in the platform a
little longer (say, for up to an extra 30 seconds), so that both trains can
cross the road together and avoid delaying road traffic any more than is
necessary.




--
MetroGnome
~~~~~~~~~~

(To email me, edit return address)





^ = This is definitely the arrangement at Callerton Parkway. I *think* this
is also the case at Bank Foot, although it is so long since I was there that
I'm now not 100% certain.

level crosings on the LUL
 

In article ,
MetroGnome writes
Is it because the crossing has to be closed to road traffic before the train
arrives, and while it dwells in the platform? I've seen this before on
heavy rail (eg for London-bound trains at Higham's Park) - presumably
because the crossing is within the signal overlap of the station starting
signal, and therefore a train cannot be let into the platform until the
crossing is clear of road traffic in case the train overshoots.

No: an open level crossing is not counted as an obstruction in the
overlap (unless, of course, there's a problem such as a broken-down
car), so trains can be signalled up to a red signal right at the
crossing.

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

level crosings on the LUL
 

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article ,
MetroGnome writes
Is it because the crossing has to be closed to road traffic before the
train
arrives, and while it dwells in the platform? I've seen this before on
heavy rail (eg for London-bound trains at Higham's Park) - presumably
because the crossing is within the signal overlap of the station starting
signal, and therefore a train cannot be let into the platform until the
crossing is clear of road traffic in case the train overshoots.

No: an open level crossing is not counted as an obstruction in the
overlap (unless, of course, there's a problem such as a broken-down
car), so trains can be signalled up to a red signal right at the
crossing.

Really? I thought that it was standard practice to close a level crossing if
it was just beyond the end of a platform in case the train overshot and
strayed onto the crossing. Certainly that's what's done with London-bound
trains at Sunningdale and Reading-bound trains at Egham.

Or are you saying that it *is* done, but that it's for safety rather than
purely signalling reasons?

level crosings on the LUL
 

In message m, Martin
Underwood writes
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article ,
MetroGnome writes
Is it because the crossing has to be closed to road traffic before the
train
arrives, and while it dwells in the platform? I've seen this before on
heavy rail (eg for London-bound trains at Higham's Park) - presumably
because the crossing is within the signal overlap of the station starting
signal, and therefore a train cannot be let into the platform until the
crossing is clear of road traffic in case the train overshoots.

No: an open level crossing is not counted as an obstruction in the
overlap (unless, of course, there's a problem such as a broken-down
car), so trains can be signalled up to a red signal right at the
crossing.

Really? I thought that it was standard practice to close a level crossing if
it was just beyond the end of a platform in case the train overshot and
strayed onto the crossing. Certainly that's what's done with London-bound
trains at Sunningdale and Reading-bound trains at Egham.

Or are you saying that it *is* done, but that it's for safety rather than
purely signalling reasons?

It has the advantage that the signal at the end of the platform can be
cleared, so the preceding signal shows green or double-yellow and the
train can enter the station at a reasonable speed rather than having to
slow down to a crawl after the single yellow (as is required by
'professional driving' policies).
--
Spyke
Address is valid, but messages are treated as junk. The opinions I express do
not necessarily reflect those of the educational institution from which I post.