On Oct 28, 4:05*am, D7666 wrote:
On Oct 26, 9:37*pm, EE507 wrote:

The real issue is platforms 16 and 17 at CLJ. SDO can't be used with
the sort of loadings these trains experience, but straightening and
lengthening the platforms won't happen any time soon.
CLJ 16 and 17 will never be sorted out, so why bother when LOROL will
be a 4-car max railway forever more?

I would have thought the most significant length constraint would be
Willesden Junction (for LO trains obviously not SN). To extend that to
8-car would involve bridging WCML and that would not come cheap. As
there would be no benefit to LO in 8car trains if Willesden Junycion
were never done, the entire cost of 8car works on WLL would be born by
the SN operation.

IMHO a fundamental flaw in the LO / WLL / NLL / ELL shceme is being
geared around 4car trains. At this period in 21st century we should be
talking *absolute mnimum* 8-car trains by 2015 with passive provision
for 12car, and I'd say even 15-car (300 m length).

Crossrail should certainly be passively provided for 300 m; I'd like
to have seen TL likewise too.

What is going on with these lengthening schemes is fixing yesterdays
after tomorrow has started

I agree that a lack of future proofing is adding to the cost of
incremental capacity enhancements. 'Locking in' 4-car capability can't
make sense in the context of the almost inevitable reigning in of car
use for congestion and climate change mitigation reasons in the years
ahead, on top of London's population growth and the location of new
development.

A general problem is having such a long list of capacity-constraining
and cost-escalating legacy issues:
1. Structure gauge - no DD. You can be sure the next wave of
electrification will not make provision for it.
2. Having to move signals as well as extend platforms to accommodate
trains of longer than 240 m on many routes.
3. A lack of terminal capacity.
4. The need to tunnel in London (and Birmingham).
5. The cancelling of new DMU orders with no replacement plan for the
next 8 years, supposing electrification starts next year, longer if
not.
6. Dealing with high platforms when converting heavy rail into tram
systems. Manchester is now stuck with them.

We're not alone in all of these issues: Zurich has the headache that
12-car DD EMUs are reaching capacity in the peaks, although they
haven't as yet adopted peak pricing.

There can't be much money left over after TL3000, Crossrail, the
Olympics, etc. but I agree with your points.