London Transport (uk.transport.london) Discussion of all forms of transport in London.

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Old November 8th 03, 09:22 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Public transport in London in 18*7*9

Thanks for the interesting replies about 1829. There was less "public
transport" than I had thought!

Could I ask the same question for 1879 - ie: what *other* public transport was
available in London 50 years after the city's first omnibus route started? Or
recommendations of websites to help in my quest? I have obtained an "onnibus
guide" for this year (although it proclaims itself to be incomplete) and I'm
sure information on main line railways for the year is readily available.
I believe there would have been one or two horse tramways by this time, and
possibly the "Tower Subway" cable cars? I'm even more vague on water-bourne
transport.

I *had* begun an 1879 London public transport map based on Mr Harris's
historical maps (www.busmap.org) with permission, but lost it all due to a PC
problem! I'll (hopefully) upload a new PDF version to www.earthfish.co.uk
sometime soon.

Thanks again for any help given.




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Old November 9th 03, 06:33 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Public transport in London in 18*7*9

J. Morris writes:
Could I ask the same question for 1879 - ie: what *other* public
transport was available in London 50 years after the city's first
omnibus route started? ...


What you need to do now is head for a suitable library and find a copy
of "A History of London Transport - Volume 1 - The Nineteenth Century",
by T.C. Barker and Michael Robbins, published 1963 by George Allen and
Unwin. This covers all modes of transport in considerable detail.
(There is also a considerably larger Volume 2, which goes up to 1947
in detail and then has a brief summary of developments to about 1970.
The index for both volumes is in Volume 2.)

I'm sure information on main line railways for the year is readily
available.


In 1879 the main line railway network in London was already fairly
close to its present shape, although of course there have been some
lines opened or closed since then. The book includes maps showing
the railway network in 1855, 1875, and 1900, each giving dates for
all changes since the previous map.

All trains used steam locomotives, of course, and as far as I know it
was normal to provide three classes of travel even for short journeys.

I believe there would have been one or two horse tramways by this
time


There is an 1875 map of these too, and an 1895 map. (These show where
the trams ran, but not the individual routes.) The biggest horse tram
network in 1875 was the North Metropolitan, which connected three City
terminals with six outer ones. The City terminals were at Aldgate,
Finsbury Square, and a point near today's Old Street tube station;
lines ran to East India Dock, Stratford, Stamford Hill, Stoke Newington,
Clissold Park, Finsbury Park, and Archway Tavern. The London Street
Tramways had a smaller network immediately west of this area, running
north from Euston and King's Cross, also reaching such points as
Archway Tavern.

Completely separate and mostly south of the river was the London
Tramways system, with such terminals as Greenwich, Brixton, Clapham
Common, Victoria, Westminster Bridge, Blackfriars Bridge, and a point
near today's Borough tube station. And separate again was the first
section of the West Metropolitan, from Shepherds Bush to Acton.

And way out in the north, the Wotton Tramway was open from Quainton
Road to Brill -- I mention this only because for a time, later on,
it became a branch of the Metropolitan Line.

and possibly the "Tower Subway" cable cars?


The plural is wrong -- there was only one car. And the date is also
wrong; it only operated for a few months in 1870. In 1879 the Tower
Subway was open only to pedestrians.

I'm even more vague on water-bourne transport.


It was collapsing at this time, in the face of rail competition.
The London Steamboat Company was formed in 1876 by the merger of
all four operators then surviving, and attempted to run paddle-
wheelers twice an hour all year connecting Chelsea, Greenwich,
and Woolwich; services previously operating to such points as
Richmond and Gravesend had already ended. But there was little
traffic in the winter, and even in summer the company mainly
survived on excursion traffic, but this too was diminishing, and
it didn't help when 700 people died in the 1878 sinking of the
Princess Alice.

I *had* begun an 1879 London public transport map based on Mr Harris's
historical maps (www.busmap.org) with permission ...


The book goes into some detail about the various companies operating
(horse-drawn) bus routes, but does not include any bus maps.

Now the Underground.

In 1879 today's Circle Line, then called the Inner Circle, was still
missing the eastern section from Liverpool Street to Mansion House.

The northern and western sides belonged to the Metropolitan Railway
(Met) and the southern side to what had become its arch-enemy, the
Metropolitan District Railway (MDR or "District"). The two companies
operated trains on separate routes from their respective termini to
Hammersmith (today's H&C and District Lines), then both services
continued over LSWR tracks (essentially today's District Line) to
Richmond.

Met and MDR trains also ran from one end of the incomplete Inner Circle
to the other, and also took the Middle Circle route, which was the same
except between Paddington and Gloucester Road, where it followed the
H&C to Latimer Road, then headed for Addison Road (today's Kensington
(Olympia)) and Earl's Court via the West London Railway.

Other MDR trains ran onto two branches: the one to Ealing Broadway,
as today, opened in 1879, and today's Wimbledon branch existed only
as far as West Brompton. And other Met trains operated what was at
that time a completely separate service starting at Baker Street;
in 1879 its outer terminus was extended to West Hampstead.

Met and MDR services were operated by condensing steam engines --
when running in tunnel, the steam was directed into the water tanks.
The smoke was exhausted as normal. The trains used compartment stock
with three classes of travel, I think. All trains on the Met were
standard gauge by this time.

The Met and the MDR had several track connections with main line
railways. I have already mentioned the LSWR and WLR (in fact, the
MDR actually consisted of two separate sections joined only by the
LSWR); the Met was connected at Paddington with the GWR, at St.
Pancras with the Midland, at King's Cross with the GNR, and at
Farringdon with the LC&DR, and trains from all these railways ran
onto the Met. Through services were carried between the LC&DR to
the south and both the Midland and GNR to the north, the former
being essentially today's Thameslink. The tracks now used by
Thameslink alongside the Underground -- the City Widened Lines --
then belonged to the Met.

LNWR trains ran from Mansion House via today's District, then via
the WLR and NLR to Broad Street -- this was the Outer Circle route.
Midland trains also ran a short way onto the District at this time,
via a circuitous and short-lived route from St. Pancras to Earl's
Court (via Acton) called the Super Outer Circle.

The East London Railway also existed at this time, but was not
considered an underground line although it did run though the
Thames Tunnel. It was used mostly for through services from
Liverpool Street station onto the SER and LB&SCR via their
respective New Cross stations (now New Cross and New Cross Gate).

Much of this detail was taken from Clive's Underground Line Guides
http://www.davros.org/rail/culg.
--
Mark Brader | "Design an idiot-proof system, and the universe
Toronto | will spontaneously evolve a higher grade of idiot
| that is able to circumvent it."

My text in this article is in the public domain.


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