On 12 Nov 2003 01:45:14 -0800, (Boltar) wrote:

Ok , this is a hopeless anoraky question but something I suddenly wondered
last night... How come most bus routes have a simple number (eg 13, 221) but
some have a letter in them , eg W6. Why do some routes have letters too? Its
not like they've used up all the numbers in the universe so do these letters
denote something special (ok , I know what the N in the night bus routes mean ,
I'm talking about daytime routes)?

B2003
Ok, anorak on:


a) Routes numbered in the 600 series are school routes. With the
exception of the 607, which is a limited stop version of the 207.

b) Route numbered in the 800/900 series are Mobility Bus Routes.
Before the introduction of low-floor buses the Mobility Bus Routes
provided a limited bus network accessible to disabled people. The
network is being slowly withdrawn as the mainstream network becomes
accessible.

c) Routes with a prefix (e.g. W7, E3) have two origins:
i) They were originally flat fare routes in the 1970s under
the Bus Re-shaping plan.
ii) They were introduced as part of a network review in the
1980s/1990s
iii) They're specially branded (e.g. PR1/PR2)

d) The 300/400 number space was originally used by routes operated by
the Country Department of London Transport. Recently, the numberspace
has being used as an 'over flow' by TfL.

e) Routes prefixed with 'N' are Night Buses. Historically these
didn't follow day routes. Most now do, but a few don't.

f) Suffixed routes are being withdrawn (e.g. 207A). These are related
to the Bassom system of route numbering.


I think I've got the above right, but I'm sure an expert will be along
shortly....


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

On 12 Nov 2003 01:45:14 -0800, (Boltar) wrote:

Ok , this is a hopeless anoraky question but something I suddenly wondered
last night... How come most bus routes have a simple number (eg 13, 221) but
some have a letter in them , eg W6. Why do some routes have letters too? Its
not like they've used up all the numbers in the universe so do these letters
denote something special (ok , I know what the N in the night bus routes mean ,
I'm talking about daytime routes)?

The use of letters on bus routes goes back to changes in the late 1960s
when LT introduced the Bus Reshaping Plan that introduced short suburban
routes, Red Arrows and attempted to spread one person operation. Notable
at that time were W routes introduced in Wood Green and Walthamstow -
the W3 being a notable survivor from that time along with the W7 and W8.

When LT dabbled in minibuses in the 70s a number of these were letter
routes like the B1, P4, H1-3, W9. Some of those have grown to the extent
that the buses used today are certainly not "mini".

We then get the 1980s when the tendering regime led to network changes
in places like Walthamstow, Bexleyheath, Harrow. Other areas adopted a
similar strategy using mini and then midibuses - the Hounslow area and
Roundabout (a subsidiary set up to run the routes) in Orpington being
examples.

You therefore got B routes in Bexleyheath, W routes in Walthamstow plus
some fill in routes in the Wood Green area like the W4, W5 and W6.
Harrow got H routes higher than H10 but less than H20 while Hounslow got
H20 up to H37 plus oddities like the H98. Orpington got "R" routes,
Uxbridge got U routes etc. Docklands got "D", Kingston "K", Central area
"C", Ealing "E",

The use of letters seems to have stabilised a bit these days. There
aren't that many gaps in the numbering cycle if you work on 1-400 or so
being London Area routes, things in the 500s being Red Arrows, 600s
being Schools typically and 700 was the old Green Line series and to
some extent still is.

If there are more knowledgeable bus historians reading this then I'm
happy to be corrected.
--
Paul C
Admits to Working for London Underground!

"Robert Woolley" wrote in message
...
On 12 Nov 2003 01:45:14 -0800, (Boltar) wrote:

Ok , this is a hopeless anoraky question but something I suddenly
wondered
last night... How come most bus routes have a simple number (eg 13, 221)
but
some have a letter in them , eg W6. Why do some routes have letters too?
Its
not like they've used up all the numbers in the universe so do these
letters
denote something special (ok , I know what the N in the night bus routes
mean ,
I'm talking about daytime routes)?

B2003
Ok, anorak on:


a) Routes numbered in the 600 series are school routes. With the
exception of the 607, which is a limited stop version of the 207.

b) Route numbered in the 800/900 series are Mobility Bus Routes.
Before the introduction of low-floor buses the Mobility Bus Routes
provided a limited bus network accessible to disabled people. The
network is being slowly withdrawn as the mainstream network becomes
accessible.

c) Routes with a prefix (e.g. W7, E3) have two origins:
i) They were originally flat fare routes in the 1970s under
the Bus Re-shaping plan.
ii) They were introduced as part of a network review in the
1980s/1990s
iii) They're specially branded (e.g. PR1/PR2)

d) The 300/400 number space was originally used by routes operated by
the Country Department of London Transport. Recently, the numberspace
has being used as an 'over flow' by TfL.

e) Routes prefixed with 'N' are Night Buses. Historically these
didn't follow day routes. Most now do, but a few don't.

f) Suffixed routes are being withdrawn (e.g. 207A). These are related
to the Bassom system of route numbering.


I think I've got the above right, but I'm sure an expert will be along
shortly....

I think 3 will probably come along together :-)

Paul Corfield writes:

Hounslow got H20 up to H37 plus oddities like the H98.

The H91 follows the 391 route most of the way between Hammersmith and
the Chiswick Roundabout, which has always seemed to me to be more than
just coincidence. The other oddities may have similar similarities,
or maybe Hounslow just ran out of numbers and took 90-99 as well.

And S for Sutton, we also have R for the Orpington Roundabout routes
and of course C-Central for the C1 and C3

Martin



"Henry" wrote in message ...
"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message
...
(Boltar)typed

I *think* it has something to do with where these buses run.
U* buses mostly run around the Uxbridge area
H* buses mostly cover Harrow (except H1, H2 & H3, which go round
Hampstead Garden Suburb)
E* buses have an Ealing connection
PR* run around Park Royal

I don't know if Wood Green or Walthamstow gave their W to the W* buses
though.
A* buses are airport buses.

And T for associated with Croydon Tramlink I believe (eg T33)

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:13:00 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht
wrote:



I *think* it has something to do with where these buses run.
U* buses mostly run around the Uxbridge area
H* buses mostly cover Harrow (except H1, H2 & H3, which go round
Hampstead Garden Suburb)
E* buses have an Ealing connection
PR* run around Park Royal

I don't know if Wood Green or Walthamstow gave their W to the W* buses though.

Yes, they were about the first in the '60s. The W1 - w6 were in the
Wood Green area, the W21 in Walthamstow. At about the same time E1/2/3
were introduced in Ealing.

They were flat-fare routes with very few seats, based on the 500 Red
Arrow model.

I think posters here are right in that initially the letter prefix
routes were the flat-fare routes, but later ones were either new
routes fitting in with an existing scheme (W7, W8); routes that were a
little different for the time (H1, C11, W9 for instance, with
hail-and-ride on parts of the route.) or sometimes just to identify
routes introduced as part of a new, but traditional, scheme, such as
the U routes.

In article , Helen Deborah Vecht
writes
I *think* it has something to do with where these buses run.
U* buses mostly run around the Uxbridge area
H* buses mostly cover Harrow (except H1, H2 & H3, which go round
Hampstead Garden Suburb)
E* buses have an Ealing connection
PR* run around Park Royal

I think there was once a "PB1 (?) in Potters Bar, too?
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf" wrote in message
...
In article , Helen Deborah Vecht
writes
I *think* it has something to do with where these buses run.
U* buses mostly run around the Uxbridge area
H* buses mostly cover Harrow (except H1, H2 & H3, which go round
Hampstead Garden Suburb)
E* buses have an Ealing connection
PR* run around Park Royal

I think there was once a "PB1 (?) in Potters Bar, too?

And "R*" in Richmond.

Ian Jelf typed


In article , Helen Deborah Vecht
writes
I *think* it has something to do with where these buses run.
U* buses mostly run around the Uxbridge area
H* buses mostly cover Harrow (except H1, H2 & H3, which go round
Hampstead Garden Suburb)
E* buses have an Ealing connection
PR* run around Park Royal

I think there was once a "PB1 (?) in Potters Bar, too?

Yebbut Potters Bar isn't in London. It's even on the other side of the
M25. (Just)

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On 12 Nov 2003 23:29:09 +0000, jasonr (Jason Rumney) @ f2s.com wrote:

Paul Corfield writes:

Hounslow got H20 up to H37 plus oddities like the H98.

The H91 follows the 391 route most of the way between Hammersmith and
the Chiswick Roundabout, which has always seemed to me to be more than
just coincidence. The other oddities may have similar similarities,
or maybe Hounslow just ran out of numbers and took 90-99 as well.

IIRC the 391 and H91 used to be the 91. They were split and renumbered.
The current 91 used to be the 14A when it was split away from the old 14
which ran Hornsey Rise to Putney. It was chopped in two with the top bit
being converted to one person operation and then later being renumbered,
rerouted and tendered.

IIRC the H98 used to be the 98 long before the 98 was a Routemaster
route in Central London which was the old number 8 before it.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!