Roland Perry wrote:
It is clear to me that the specification is faulty in this case.

The failure mechanism would appear to be someone touching in, and
then touching out on a gate but failing to go through the gate. So
they are still "airside", and capable of catching a train somewhere.

This is such a fundamental fraud vector that whoever designed the
system to allow it (while penalising innocent passengers whose
platform was changed at the last minute) should be hung out to dry.

What do you suggest?

Landside validators to confirm you've left the platform.

.... or even an option on the ticket machines to do the same?
Wouldn't even require special extra validators.

#Paul

On 14/02/2015 8:38 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:43:23 on Fri, 13
Feb 2015, Barry Salter remarked:
On 13/02/2015 6:23 AM, Roland Perry wrote:

What if the traveller was using Contactless - can the SWT ticket offices
deal with hiccups then?

Contactless issues are a Helpdesk job, unfortunately.


Would that require you to find someone to let you back airside in order
to come back with a touch-out? I'd be reluctant to touch-in, in case it
triggered yet another layer of problems.

Depends on how the gateline's laid out, and how busy it is. You may just
be able to lean over from an adjacent gate and do it yourself.

assuming you were still within the maximum journey time.

Given that the exercise started when SWT cancelled a train, would Delay
Repay allow you to add the time queuing at the ticket office to the
overall journey delay?

SWT still work on the "old" Passenger Charter system, rather than Delay
Repay, so probably...Point's moot anyway, given they don't do Oyster.

Or you just wait 'til the following day and go to the Oyster website
(assuming your card is registered) or phone the Helpdesk and they'll
sort it out for you with significantly less faffing around...

What a performance! Just because SWT was a driver short.

Yup...But TfL will still you that Oyster/Contactless are so much more
"convenient" for passengers than paper tickets...

On 13/02/2015 22:43, Barry Salter wrote:

Or you just wait 'til the following day and go to the Oyster website
(assuming your card is registered) or phone the Helpdesk and they'll
sort it out for you with significantly less faffing around...

Has the Oyster telephone Helpline improved recently? I ask because my
only experiences of using it (a couple of years ago) involved hanging on
the phone for at between 20 and 30 minutes each time. Had I not been
using my included minutes on the phone this would have completely
negated the value that I eventually got restored to my Oyster card.


--
Clive Page

In article , (Clive Page)
wrote:

On 13/02/2015 22:43, Barry Salter wrote:

Or you just wait 'til the following day and go to the Oyster website
(assuming your card is registered) or phone the Helpdesk and they'll
sort it out for you with significantly less faffing around...

Has the Oyster telephone Helpline improved recently? I ask because
my only experiences of using it (a couple of years ago) involved
hanging on the phone for at between 20 and 30 minutes each time. Had
I not been using my included minutes on the phone this would have
completely negated the value that I eventually got restored to my
Oyster card.

The last time I called it was much better than that and resolved some long
standing issues.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:44:09 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:38:53 on Fri, 13 Feb
2015, d remarked:
What do you suggest?

Landside validators to confirm you've left the platform.

Nah, there's a far more simple solution - if no one goes through the gates
on a touch out (infra red beam not triggered) before they close THEN you
deduct a penalty fare otherwise you refund.

The fare dodgers could just wave an umbrella/briefcase through the beam
to get it to falsely register their departure.

True, but that would look a bit obvious to any staff standing nearby or on
CCTV evidence later. Besides - how many average plebs even know about the
infra red detectors?

--
Spud

In message ,
d writes
What do you suggest?

Landside validators to confirm you've left the platform.

Nah, there's a far more simple solution - if no one goes through the gates
on a touch out (infra red beam not triggered) before they close THEN you
deduct a penalty fare otherwise you refund.

The fare dodgers could just wave an umbrella/briefcase through the beam
to get it to falsely register their departure.

True, but that would look a bit obvious to any staff standing nearby or
on CCTV evidence later.

As is today's trick of touching out, but then returning to the platform.

Besides - how many average plebs even know about the infra red
detectors?

It's the professional fare dodgers they are trying to catch.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 04:08:00AM -0600, wrote:
In article , d
() wrote:
Touch in, go through gate, touch out on exit gate to get refund but
don't go through it and happily travel for free - assuming you don't
get caught by a revenue patrol and can get out the other end of
course.
Which is why in-out-in again within a reasonable time should be handled
automatically as oyster-rail.org.uk implies but the TfL site is silent on.

And it's in-out-in that I did. Perhaps one of our resident fare-dodging
experts can enlighten me about how a train-load of people could have
abused that, cos I can't figure it out myself.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

Hail Caesar! Those about to vi ^[ you!

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 11:40:00AM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

Lack of transparency is a long term complaint that I (and others) have
with TfL's fares policy. Of course, this would never have happened if
they'd been re-nationalised. (Oh.. wait...)

I don't think that the problem is lack of transparency. The problem is
that the fare structure is too complex for any normal person to
remember.

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

Wow, my first sigquoting! I feel so special now!
-- Dan Sugalski

On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 02:58:40PM +0000, Barry Salter wrote:
On 14/02/2015 8:38 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
What a performance! Just because SWT was a driver short.
Yup...But TfL will still you that Oyster/Contactless are so much more
"convenient" for passengers than paper tickets...

To be fair they *are* more convenient if you assume that there are no
systematic errors. And this is a common assumption amongst employees of
companies that have complex customer-facing systems - it's far too easy
to think that it's the user's fault for doing something wrong when the
real problem is that the system is too complex for the user to have a
hope in hell of getting everything right.

--
David Cantrell | Minister for Arbitrary Justice

Good advice is always certain to be ignored,
but that's no reason not to give it -- Agatha Christie

On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 10:05:19PM +0000, Clive Page wrote:
On 13/02/2015 22:43, Barry Salter wrote:
Or you just wait 'til the following day and go to the Oyster website
(assuming your card is registered) or phone the Helpdesk and they'll
sort it out for you with significantly less faffing around...
Has the Oyster telephone Helpline improved recently?

Top tip:

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "internet beard fetish club"

I don't do .INI, .BAT, or .SYS files. I don't assign apps to files.
I don't configure peripherals or networks before using them. I have
a computer to do all that. I have a Macintosh, not a hobby.
-- Fritz Anderson