I like TfL's idea of discounts for Tube-bus or bus-Tube through
journeys, but it may be difficult to implement. There would have to be a
limit on the time allowed for a bus journey to a Tube station, and a
limit on the time allowed to catch a bus after getting off the Tube.

I don't see that as being too difficult, provided you don't try to be too
clever about it and try too hard to limit it to genuine bus-tube or tube-bus
through journeys. Just make it a general case that any tube ticket bought
within a certain time of any bus ticket attracts a discount, and vice versa,
where that time could be extremely generous (say a couple of hours). There
will be those who are actually making two completely separate journeys, or a
return journey, who also get a bit of a discount but I don't see any problem
there at all. Just means a lot more happier people surely?

Indeed you might not need a time limit at all. If you were just interested
in encouraging peak time bus-tube through journeys then make it a peak-time
incentive. If you want to encourage it all day then make it all day. Don't
worry about how long apart the actual journeys are.

Graham J wrote:
I like TfL's idea of discounts for Tube-bus or bus-Tube through
journeys, but it may be difficult to implement. There would have to be a
limit on the time allowed for a bus journey to a Tube station, and a
limit on the time allowed to catch a bus after getting off the Tube.


I don't see that as being too difficult, provided you don't try to be too
clever about it and try too hard to limit it to genuine bus-tube or tube-bus
through journeys. Just make it a general case that any tube ticket bought
within a certain time of any bus ticket attracts a discount, and vice versa,
where that time could be extremely generous (say a couple of hours). There
will be those who are actually making two completely separate journeys, or a
return journey, who also get a bit of a discount but I don't see any problem
there at all. Just means a lot more happier people surely?

Indeed you might not need a time limit at all. If you were just interested
in encouraging peak time bus-tube through journeys then make it a peak-time
incentive. If you want to encourage it all day then make it all day. Don't
worry about how long apart the actual journeys are.

Thinking about it, it would be quite hard to abuse the system anyway - I
imagine the number of return trips where one leg is by Tube and the
other leg is by bus are small - except perhaps for when the return
journey is after the Tube stops.

Even so, if you are TfL, then it would be difficult to explain why you
are offering discounts for any bus journey following a Tube journey in
the same day (or vice versa). The main reason behind this idea has to be
to make life fairer or more convenient for people travelling to areas
not well-served by Tube, but still within a certain journey time of a
Tube station. Therefore it would make sense to introduce a reasonably
long time limit for the interchange (as you said initially), rather than
a blanket all-day discount which doesn't really serve any purpose.

A couple of hours between boarding a bus and entering a Tube station, or
between exiting a Tube station and boarding a bus, should be more than
sufficient - it would allow reasonable flexibility, such as visiting a
shop at the interchange point or meeting a friend en route.

The discount system might also encourage use of the suburban bus network
for those who don't usually take buses, which could have a knock-on
effect in increased bus use even when not related to a Tube trip, as
those people become more comfortable with buses.

Applying a similar "relaxed" logic to bus-bus through journeys isn't
necessarily a bad thing either. You could allow people an hour between
boarding one bus and the subsequent bus; enough time for an interchange,
but also for a quick return journey - but the latter would probably be a
minority of journeys anyway, and might even encourage use of the bus
(increasing profits).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In article , Graham J wrote:
I don't see that as being too difficult, provided you don't
try to be too clever about it and try too hard to limit it to
genuine bus-tube or tube-bus through journeys. Just make it a
general case that any tube ticket bought within a certain time
of any bus ticket attracts a discount, and vice versa, where
that time could be extremely generous (say a couple of hours).

That's the system they have in Melbourne: "Two Hour Metcards allow
unlimited train, tram and bus travel for at least two hours within
selected zones on the day of first validation.

The ticket expires two hours from the next full hour after the
first validation. For example - a ticket validated at 9.05 am will
expire at 12.00 noon and a ticket validated at 8.55 am will expire
at 11.00 am.

In addition, tickets first validated after 6.00 pm are valid until
the end of services for that day."

http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/m...es/twohour.php

2 hours is A$3.10 v. A$5.90 for a one-day pass (Zone 1, say 10 mile
radius of city centre) = £1.25/£2.40 approx.

--
Tony Bryer

"David Jackman" wrote in message
52.50...
Dave Arquati wrote in
:


I believe TfL are planning a reduced fare for a combined bus + Tube
journey using prepay, but this could be a while off as they wait for
each new Oyster product to "embed" itself (initial prepay, then bus
prepay, then peak bus fares, and then probably capping).

A discounted "through" bus fare would be excellent but could be open to
abuse - if it were based on a reasonable time allowance (say, 45 mins
between touching in on the first bus and the second) then you could make
a short bus journey, get off and do something, and get back on the
return bus.


I assume it is too much to expect this to mean that one fare would allow
unlimited travel for an hour (the way many continental systems work)
but we
will see yet more complexity added to an already over complex system?

(some systems, I think Berlin, now explicitly disallow a return journey
for
the one fare, even if within the hour)

Most european systems work this way. The ticket is for a
single ride, with no doubling back or circular journeys.
But as this is pretty difficult to enforce this, the time-limit is
there as well.

I can't say I've ever see a timed ticket (except a full day)
that is defined as unlimited rides.

tim

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:17:44 +0100, "tim"
wrote:

I can't say I've ever see a timed ticket (except a full day)
that is defined as unlimited rides.

I *think*, unless I misunderstood, that Prague's system *does* offer
unlimited rides.

I'm beginning to take to the idea of discounting a repeat journey -
one bus fare gbp1, two bus fares within an hour (say) gbp1.50, similar
arrangement with tube fares.

The main source of fraud which puts bus companies off the idea of
offering through tickets, from what I can tell, isn't that people
might pop to the shops and back on the same ticket - it's people
getting a through ticket and going and giving it to someone else in
the bus queue as they get off. They obviously wouldn't do that with a
loaded Pre-Pay card!

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

In message , tim
writes
I can't say I've ever see a timed ticket (except a full day) that is
defined as unlimited rides.

Geneva does (or did when I was last there). Admittedly, though, that
was over ten years ago.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:06:37 +0000, Ian Jelf
wrote in :
In message , tim
writes
I can't say I've ever see a timed ticket (except a full day) that is
defined as unlimited rides.

Geneva does (or did when I was last there). Admittedly, though, that
was over ten years ago.

Still does. Fr2.20 for 30 mins/2 zones, 2.50 for (IIRC 45 mins/3
zones, etc. Unfortunately ticket machines don't give change, so when it
was Fr1.80 I often found myself having to pay with a Fr2 coin, but only
able to claim Fr1.80 back from PPARC. I've since wised up and use the
CASH (stored value) of my Swiss bank-card, which debits the exact amount.
If I leave a credit on it, I can head straight to the buses at GVA instead
of getting notes out of a cash mashine and then making a trivial purchase
to get coins, as I usually run myself short of Swiss currency or spend it
in the Duty Free on my way out.

--
Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Room 40-1-B12, CERN
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 11 Jan 2005:

Thinking about it, it would be quite hard to abuse the system anyway - I
imagine the number of return trips where one leg is by Tube and the
other leg is by bus are small - except perhaps for when the return
journey is after the Tube stops.

Oh, I quite often do that when going into London - if I'm in a hurry, or
have a fixed appointment, I'll take the Tube there, and if I'm tired
after shopping I'll probably catch a bus home. Or vice versa.....
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 2 January 2005

Ian Jelf wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 11 Jan 2005:

In message , tim 5200109735
writes
I can't say I've ever see a timed ticket (except a full day) that is
defined as unlimited rides.

Geneva does (or did when I was last there). Admittedly, though, that
was over ten years ago.

I *think* Warsaw does, too, BICBW.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 2 January 2005

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
Ian Jelf wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 11 Jan 2005:

In message , tim 5200109735
writes
I can't say I've ever see a timed ticket (except a full day) that is
defined as unlimited rides.

Geneva does (or did when I was last there). Admittedly, though, that
was over ten years ago.

I *think* Warsaw does, too, BICBW.

No, it seem that you are right (I did not use PT when I
was there - I could not work out the tickets. It was pre
internet, so I had no chance to find out before I went.)

Now, I can't work out what the difference is between:

Bilety okresowe miejskie na okaziciela
and
Bilety sieciowe okresowe na okaziciela

Oh well, I'll just have to take the 2.40 Zl (0.50Eu) pd hit if I go
back!

tim

--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 2 January 2005