On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote:
After 2/1/10 when PAYG is extended then the same basic principle
applies. However if travelling on NR lines [1] to outside of your ticket
validity but inside the zonal area you will require an OEP to be set on
your card. This applies when you start from a station that is in the
zonal validity of your ticket. You also need to have £1.50 worth of
value on your card as the minimum.

The £1.50 or more needs to be loaded to your PAYG balance *before* you
set the OEP. The OEP will not set if there is less than £1.50 on your
balance.

On 13 Dec, 13:14, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Someone with a zonal season who fails to touch in at an origin outside his
zones will just be travelling without a ticket exactly as now and will be
taking the same risk of a PF as he does now...

But assuming they touch out within their Travelcard zones, what
(penalty?) charge would hit your PAYG balance?


On 13 Dec, 15:00, "Ian F." wrote:
Reading all the replies, I suppose I should have pointed out that the
extension to the Oyster Travelcard is to be used on NR where PAYG is not
accepted yet.

Seems this will make a difference. I assume I'll need a paper extension
(boundary zone 3 zone5).

Currently, yes, buy a paper extension, or book online from your
boundary station to your destination.

After January 2, all NR stations within the zones will with accept
PAYG, along with Watford Junction & three stations around Grays in
Essex.

"Chris" wrote in message
...

Currently, yes, buy a paper extension, or book online from your
boundary station to your destination.

++++++++++++

Thanks Chris and all who replied.

Ian

"Chris" wrote in message
...

On 13 Dec, 13:14, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Someone with a zonal season who fails to touch in at an origin outside
his
zones will just be travelling without a ticket exactly as now and will be
taking the same risk of a PF as he does now...

But assuming they touch out within their Travelcard zones, what
(penalty?) charge would hit your PAYG balance?

None AFAICS. This is a known loophole just as it is now, and has been ever
since seasons on Oyster became available, because there is no requirement to
touch in if there is no gateline...

Paul S

In article
,
(JD) wrote:

The rule will be:
If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a
National Rail train, you must load an OEP before boarding that
train.

Two examples:

1)

Z1-2 Travelcard on Oyster card
Liverpool Street NR to Stratford
OEP set before entry
Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry
balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension
fare
(which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge)
NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route
currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare
OEP removed by exit touch

Isn't Liverpool St to Stratford valid for PAYG now and therefore won't
need an OEP?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 13 Dec, 22:07, wrote:
In article
,





(JD) wrote:
The rule will be:
If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a
National Rail train, you must load an OEP before boarding that
train.

Two examples:

1)

Z1-2 Travelcard on Oyster card
Liverpool Street NR to Stratford
OEP set before entry
Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry
balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension
fare
(which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge)
NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route
currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare
OEP removed by exit touch

Isn't Liverpool St to Stratford valid for PAYG now and therefore won't
need an OEP?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Stratford may be an exception for some other reason, but an OEP can
surely only be required for a route on which PAYG is valid?

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

Stratford may be an exception for some other reason, but an OEP can
surely only be required for a route on which PAYG is valid?

OEPs don't exist until 2 January. After then NR appears to divided into
two classes, where PAYG is valid today and where PAYG is extended from 2
January. Only the latter will need OEPs.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 13 Dec, 16:29, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:02:31 -0800 (PST), JD wrote:
On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F."

[1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP
purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of
charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff
next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not
entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff.
The rule will be:
If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a
National Rail train, you must load an OEP and touch in before boarding
that train

Two examples:

1)

Z1-2 Travelcard onOystercard
Liverpool Street NR to Stratford
OEP set before entry
Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry
balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare
(which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge)
NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route
currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare
OEP removed by exit touch

Err no because this is an interavailable section of route that charges
the TfL tariff. The requirements for OEP is for NR only where the TfL
tariff does not apply (I think). I confess I am not 100% certain on this
point as you have quoted above.

I don't understand the reference to "capping" at the NR fare. This
implies more than one *tariff* applies in the case of Stratford which
makes no sense given it is an interavailable location and is charged on
the TfL tariff (for journeys from Liverpool Street).

2)

Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard
Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town
OEP set before entry
Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry
balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which
will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare)
OEP removed by exit touch

I don't think it applies here either. The section of route you describe
is on the TfL tariff all the way from E&C to Kentish Town. The validator
at E&C Thameslink (there aren't gates IIRC) will simply set E&C as the
origin because E&C is in both zones and therefore the Travelcard is
valid for entry. It is the exit validator at Kentish Town that will
deduct the LUL Zone 1 fare. *This is no different to how it would do
things today - why will it suddenly change on 2/1/10 when the fares
tariff will not change. *The TfL publicity is going to great lengths to
distinguish between "2009 PAYG lines" and "2010 PAYG Lines".

I recall one post on here about PAYG involving Thameslink that seemed to
suggest that it is treated differently in terms of fares calculation for
some journey combinations on PAYG. I think M Dickinson posted that post
and he does seem to have extra knowledge that the rest of us don't have.

I guess you're going to disagree with my answers so if you've seen
something more definitive care to say what it is you've read?

--
Paul C

Stating fact - not an opinion. Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative
fun!

Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2
Jan 2010.

All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL
fare" on routes that currently accept payg (accept Victoria to
Balham). Not that "you will pay the TfL fare"

e.g.
Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper
than the Through (TfL+NR fare)

There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you
change to NR at Liverpool Street or not

Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares
(obviously)

Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than
Through fare)

However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR
fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does
not accept payg

regards

On 14 Dec, 00:36, wrote:
In article
,

(MIG) wrote:
Stratford may be an exception for some other reason, but an OEP can
surely only be required for a route on which PAYG is valid?

OEPs don't exist until 2 January. After then NR appears to divided into
two classes, where PAYG is valid today and where PAYG is extended from 2
January. Only the latter will need OEPs.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

The rule is simpler than that

NR train beyond zones of Travelcard - OEP required.

On 13 Dec, 16:29, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:02:31 -0800 (PST), JD wrote:
On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F."

[1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP
purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of
charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff
next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not
entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff.
The rule will be:
If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a
National Rail train, you must load an OEP and touch in before boarding
that train

Two examples:

1)

Z1-2 Travelcard onOystercard
Liverpool Street NR to Stratford
OEP set before entry
Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry
balance adjusted on exit according to the NR only Z3 NR extension fare
(which will be the same as the Z3 NR pay as you go charge)
NB this will technically be the TfL Z3 fare (because the route
currently accepts payg) but will be capped at the NR fare
OEP removed by exit touch

Err no because this is an interavailable section of route that charges
the TfL tariff. The requirements for OEP is for NR only where the TfL
tariff does not apply (I think). I confess I am not 100% certain on this
point as you have quoted above.

I don't understand the reference to "capping" at the NR fare. This
implies more than one *tariff* applies in the case of Stratford which
makes no sense given it is an interavailable location and is charged on
the TfL tariff (for journeys from Liverpool Street).

2)

Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard
Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town
OEP set before entry
Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry
balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which
will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare)
OEP removed by exit touch

I don't think it applies here either. The section of route you describe
is on the TfL tariff all the way from E&C to Kentish Town. The validator
at E&C Thameslink (there aren't gates IIRC) will simply set E&C as the
origin because E&C is in both zones and therefore the Travelcard is
valid for entry. It is the exit validator at Kentish Town that will
deduct the LUL Zone 1 fare. *This is no different to how it would do
things today - why will it suddenly change on 2/1/10 when the fares
tariff will not change. *The TfL publicity is going to great lengths to
distinguish between "2009 PAYG lines" and "2010 PAYG Lines".

I recall one post on here about PAYG involving Thameslink that seemed to
suggest that it is treated differently in terms of fares calculation for
some journey combinations on PAYG. I think M Dickinson posted that post
and he does seem to have extra knowledge that the rest of us don't have.

I guess you're going to disagree with my answers so if you've seen
something more definitive care to say what it is you've read?

--
Paul C

tating fact - not an opinion. Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative
fun!

Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2
Jan 2010.

All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL
fare" on routes that currently accept payg (accept Victoria to
Balham). Not that "you will pay the TfL fare"

e.g.
Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper
than the Through (TfL+NR fare)

There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you
change to NR at Liverpool Street or not

Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares
(obviously)

Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than
TfL fare)

However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR
fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does
not accept payg

regard

On 13 Dec, 15:23, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
"JD" wrote in message

...

On 13 Dec, 13:00, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:57:28 -0000, "Ian F."

[1] I have no idea whether "NR lines" are differentiated for OEP
purposes in the same way that they will be differentiated in terms of
charging rates. Lines currently valid for PAYG stay on the TfL tariff
next year but the lines being added to the system (primarily but not
entirely south of the river) are on the NR tariff.
--
Paul C

The rule will be:
If you are travelling outside the zones of your Travelcard(s) on a
National Rail train, you must load an OEP before boarding that train.

No, you only need an OEP if you are starting within the zones of your
Travelcard and then travelling outside your zones.

2)

Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard
Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town
OEP set before entry
Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry
balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which
will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare)
OEP removed by exit touch

In this case you are touching in outside your zones, so an Entry charge
will be deducted whether you have an OEP or not.

Peter Smyth

correct - starting within zone - travelling beyond zone on NR train