On 14 Dec, 20:15, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:27:05 -0800 (PST), JD wrote:
On 13 Dec, 15:02, JD wrote:

Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard
Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town
OEP set before entry
Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry
balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which
will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare)
OEP removed by exit touch

I got this wrong. *As has been pointed out - this is a route that
currently accepts payg

Yes you did get it wrong.

If the entry touch is between 06:30 and 09:30 or 16:00 to 19:00 (M-F)
the fare will be £1.80 (TfL fare is cheaper than NR fare of £1.90)

Incorrect - the peak charge will be £2.30 as E&C to Kentish Town is a
Z12 journey. *Off peak the charge will be £1.80.

All other times - will be charged the Off-Peak NR fare - £1.50

No it will not. *£1.50 is the NR Zone 1 charge that can only apply
between Charing Cross - W'loo East / LOB / Cannon St and Waterloo -
Vauxhall and I suppose Charing Cross - Wloo East - Waterloo -Vauxhall
(and variants thereof).

Sorry to be quite so argumentative but this stuff has to be quoted as
accurately as possible (and I hereby guarantee that I've just made a
mistake by making that claim). *I have constructed a matrix of all of
the fares on the three tariffs for the various zone combinations so I'm
pretty confident I've got the basics correct. *Some of the route options
avoiding Zone 1 are horrendous though - I can't fathom some of those.

--
Paul C

Again - the example was an Oyster card with a valid 1-2 Travelcard.
The extension fares quoted are correct

On 14 Dec, 20:08, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:41:46 -0800 (PST), JD wrote:

[big snip]

Stating fact - not an opinion. *Sorry if I am spoiling the speculative
fun!

Check Single fare finder 2010 - they will be the fares applied on 2
Jan 2010.

All the material states that "you willl not pay more that the TfL
fare" on routes that currently accept payg (accept Victoria to
Balham). *Not that "you will pay the TfL fare"

Sorry but it absolutely does NOT say that. *This is what it says

"You pay Tube, DLR and London OvergroundOystersingle fares when you
useOysteron lines that accepted pay as you go before 2010 (except
Balham-Victoria)." * *Stratford to Liverpool Street is a 2009 line which
charges LUL fares. It is also interavailable with LUL lines and has been
for donkey's years.

e.g.
Bond Street to Stratford is chaged at TfL fare (since this is cheaper
than the Through (TfL+NR fare)

Yes it is charged on that basis but only because Liv St - Stratford has
long standing interavailability with the parallel tube lines. *There is
more than one concept at play here and that has to be remembered.

There is only one chargeable route - it does not matter whether you
change to NR at Liverpool Street or not

Liverpool Street LUL to Stratford will be charged at TfL fares
(obviously)

I agree - as it is today.

Liverpool Street NR to Stratford will be charged NR fare (cheaper than
Through fare)

No it will NOT! *See above - it will be charged at LU rates as it is
today.

However, Bond Street to Maryland will be charged the Through (TfL+NR
fare) since it involves travel on NR on a route that currently does
not accept payg

Correct but then it is a different example.
--
Paul C

The TfL website text:

You pay Tube, DLR and London Overground Oyster single fares when you
use Oyster on lines that accepted pay as you go before 2010 (except
Balham-Victoria).

is misleading. The system will technically charge using the TfL fare
scale, but will cap the single fare at the NR price if the NR fare is
lower.

No doubt you have the printed booklet: Oyster pay as you go on
National Rail From January 2010 (Transport for London / National Rail
co-branded)

Page 3 - third bullet:
On National Rail routes previously accepting pay as you go, you will
not pay more than the Tube, DLR or London Overground pay as you go
fares.

is more accurate.

On 14 Dec, 14:01, "Paul Scott" wrote:
JD wrote:
On 13 Dec, 16:51, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Someone with a zonal season who fails to touch in at an origin
outside his
zones will just be travelling without a ticket exactly as now and
will be taking the same risk of a PF as he does now...
But assuming they touch out within their Travelcard zones, what
(penalty?) charge would hit your PAYG balance?

None AFAICS. This is a known loophole just as it is now, and has
been ever since seasons onOysterbecame available, because there is
no requirement to touch in if there is no gateline...

They will pay the Mixed Travel Entry / Exit (maximum fare) charge -
just as they have done since September

You've just dived in out of context. We are discussing someone who doesn't
bother to touch in outside his travelcard zones. He will be travelling
without a ticket, the system cannot guess whereabouts he didn't touch in...

Paul S

Which is why I removed the post pretty quickly after posting.
Unforunately, the mistake was replied to, and replied to and replied
to.......

On 14 Dec, 20:15, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:27:05 -0800 (PST), JD wrote:
On 13 Dec, 15:02, JD wrote:

Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard
Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town
OEP set before entry
Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry
balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which
will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare)
OEP removed by exit touch

I got this wrong. *As has been pointed out - this is a route that
currently accepts payg

Yes you did get it wrong.

If the entry touch is between 06:30 and 09:30 or 16:00 to 19:00 (M-F)
the fare will be £1.80 (TfL fare is cheaper than NR fare of £1.90)

Incorrect - the peak charge will be £2.30 as E&C to Kentish Town is a
Z12 journey. *Off peak the charge will be £1.80.

All other times - will be charged the Off-Peak NR fare - £1.50

No it will not. *£1.50 is the NR Zone 1 charge that can only apply
between Charing Cross - W'loo East / LOB / Cannon St and Waterloo -
Vauxhall and I suppose Charing Cross - Wloo East - Waterloo -Vauxhall
(and variants thereof).

Sorry to be quite so argumentative but this stuff has to be quoted as
accurately as possible (and I hereby guarantee that I've just made a
mistake by making that claim). *I have constructed a matrix of all of
the fares on the three tariffs for the various zone combinations so I'm
pretty confident I've got the basics correct. *Some of the route options
avoiding Zone 1 are horrendous though - I can't fathom some of those.

--
Paul C

The example was an Oyster card with a valid Z2-6 Travelcard loaded.
The extension fare quotes are correct.
kind regards

JD wrote:

Which is why I removed the post pretty quickly after posting.
Unforunately, the mistake was replied to, and replied to and replied
to.......

No probs - in the wider usenet (rather than Google) deleting doesn't seem to
have much effect!

Paul S

On 14 Dec, 20:15, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:27:05 -0800 (PST), JD wrote:
On 13 Dec, 15:02, JD wrote:

Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard
Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town
OEP set before entry
Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry
balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which
will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare)
OEP removed by exit touch

I got this wrong. *As has been pointed out - this is a route that
currently accepts payg

Yes you did get it wrong.

If the entry touch is between 06:30 and 09:30 or 16:00 to 19:00 (M-F)
the fare will be £1.80 (TfL fare is cheaper than NR fare of £1.90)

Incorrect - the peak charge will be £2.30 as E&C to Kentish Town is a
Z12 journey. *Off peak the charge will be £1.80.

All other times - will be charged the Off-Peak NR fare - £1.50

No it will not. *£1.50 is the NR Zone 1 charge that can only apply
between Charing Cross - W'loo East / LOB / Cannon St and Waterloo -
Vauxhall and I suppose Charing Cross - Wloo East - Waterloo -Vauxhall
(and variants thereof).

Sorry to be quite so argumentative but this stuff has to be quoted as
accurately as possible (and I hereby guarantee that I've just made a
mistake by making that claim). *I have constructed a matrix of all of
the fares on the three tariffs for the various zone combinations so I'm
pretty confident I've got the basics correct. *Some of the route options
avoiding Zone 1 are horrendous though - I can't fathom some of those.

--
Paul C

Example was Z2-6 Travelcard on Oyster
charge would be for Z1
I agree - would be charged TfL fare in this case
£1.80 at all times

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:30:21 -0800 (PST), JD
wrote:

Which is why I removed the post pretty quickly after posting.
Unforunately, the mistake was replied to, and replied to and replied
to.......

Trouble is that most news servers don't process cancel messages.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 14 Dec, 22:53, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:50:04 -0800 (PST), JD wrote:
On 14 Dec, 20:15, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:27:05 -0800 (PST), JD wrote:
On 13 Dec, 15:02, JD wrote:

Z2-6 Travelcard onOystercard
Elephant and Castle NR to Kentish Town
OEP set before entry
Mixed Travel Entry charge deducted on entry
balance adjusted on exit to reflect Z1 NR only extension fare (which
will be the same as the Z1 NR onlyOysterpay as you go fare)
OEP removed by exit touch

I got this wrong. *As has been pointed out - this is a route that
currently accepts payg

Yes you did get it wrong.

If the entry touch is between 06:30 and 09:30 or 16:00 to 19:00 (M-F)
the fare will be £1.80 (TfL fare is cheaper than NR fare of £1.90)

Incorrect - the peak charge will be £2.30 as E&C to Kentish Town is a
Z12 journey. *Off peak the charge will be £1.80.

All other times - will be charged the Off-Peak NR fare - £1.50

No it will not. *£1.50 is the NR Zone 1 charge that can only apply
between Charing Cross - W'loo East / LOB / Cannon St and Waterloo -
Vauxhall and I suppose Charing Cross - Wloo East - Waterloo -Vauxhall
(and variants thereof).

Sorry to be quite so argumentative but this stuff has to be quoted as
accurately as possible (and I hereby guarantee that I've just made a
mistake by making that claim). *I have constructed a matrix of all of
the fares on the three tariffs for the various zone combinations so I'm
pretty confident I've got the basics correct. *Some of the route options
avoiding Zone 1 are horrendous though - I can't fathom some of those.
Example was Z2-6 Travelcard onOyster
charge would be for Z1
I agree - would be charged TfL fare in this case
£1.80 at all times

OK - I concede defeat on all counts and on all examples. *You work for
TfL and in this particular area and you're getting it wrong and so am I?

tears up application for priv rate PAYG card

immodest

If I can't understand it then no one can.

immodest
--
Paul C- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is complicated. I don't work for Fares & Ticketing.
I can confirm that the fares quoted by the Single fare finder are what
will be charged on 2 Jan though.
I will not post again until I have had a good night's sleep :-)