There was loads of consultation, the DfT's website is full of it. *And when
Thameslink was delayed due to problems with other areas, they did it all
over again IIRC.


It’s not as if we’ve had a huge outcry since services were
discontinued is it?

I mean, there’s not exactly a shortage of spoilt Southern wingers
waiting to let you know over the slightest little thing.

It always been said, that when surveyed, one of the things tourists
most like about London is its Underground and that one of the things
that Londoners least like about London is its err.. Underground.

On Dec 18, 6:04*pm, allanbonnetracy
wrote:

I mean, there’s not exactly a shortage of spoilt Southern wingers
waiting to let you know over the slightest little thing.

Southern, as in todays TOC, or the BR Region, or The Railway, did not
operate to Moorgate.

So their whingers are unlikely to have had cause to whinge.

Do you actually know where Moorgate is ?

--
Nick

On 18 Dec, 14:15, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:02:46 -0800 (PST)

TimB wrote:
This is nothing but cost cutting dressed up as some fatuous service
improvement.

B2003

Nonsense, you can't build what's meant to be a shiney new system with
very tight dwell times and then announce 'sorry, the doors won't open
on these four carriages'.

Exactly that is done in plenty of other places. Theres no reason not to
do it at farringdon.

If it's being touted as a twelve-car system
that's what it has to be.

BS.

B2003

At this point, like a broken record, I remind everyone of the "Kent
Link" platform extensions which have never been, and never will be,
served by a twelve-coach train.

If there are ever twelve-coach trains on Thameslink I'll eat my
breakfast. Some other platforms won't be extended, the stock order
will be reduced and train lengths will remain as they are.

The useful Moorgate connection will be lost, and cross-London services
will continue to run at a walking pace* while disrupting the rest of
the network.

*Can someone explain to me how the performance of the 100 mph 319s
explains the crawling speed and the five-minute scheduled dwell times
which are the real problem with the service?

On 18 Dec, 17:27, D7666 wrote:
I wonder whether there was any 'consultation' with passengers using
the branch.

They said there was.

They could still have kept the new frequency even with moorgate.

Indeed.

While myself and boltar have dis-agreed on several points in the past,
I agree 100% on this one.

Exactly likewise.

In message
Neil Williams wrote:

On 18 Dec, 14:52, "Recliner" wrote:

Cue the usual speculation of outlandish schemes for express routes, DLR
extensions, etc...

Speculation aside, having been to New York the 4-track express/local
split works wonders - Manhattan is as a result far, far quicker to get
around than London, though the system has its own faults. It's a pity
London didn't go that way early on.

That said, I'm not sure you'd save a lot skip-stopping Barbican, which
is all you'd really manage. Perhaps a more effective way to speed up
the subsurface lines is for the stock to have acceleration/
deceleration like a Desiro and presumably a higher top speed to make
use of it. Will the S-stock manage that, or is the power supply not
up to it?

That said, if the infrastructure was there, a District Line that did
Earls Court-Victoria-Embankment-Blackfriars-Monument-Tower Gateway
would speed up that somewhat glacially slow service somewhat. The
western part, of course, already has express services in the form of
the Picc. A Central Line that missed out everything except the
interchanges would also be useful, same with the Picc, but I don't see
a lot of scope on other lines.


Google deep level tubes, it nearly came to pass if it hadn't been disrupted
by an Austrian painter of limited abilty but limitless ambition.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/

On 18 Dec, 17:27, D7666 wrote:

The office rebuilding on site of *HV could simply have been City
TLHL , maybe even a single platform. At least City would then have got
3 platforms, in turn dwell time ''downstairs'' might be less of a
problem.

Though it would have been inconvenient to have to run up and down
stairs/escalators if you missed one train to go for the next.

Neil

On 18 Dec, 18:04, allanbonnetracy wrote:

It’s not as if we’ve had a huge outcry since services were
discontinued is it?

And the Met Line services aren't overcrowded as a result. I guess
most of them are seeing it as a pleasant walk - it isn't *that* far
from Farringdon to Moorgate.

Neil

"Graeme" wrote in message

A Central Line that missed out everything except the
interchanges would also be useful,

Isn't that Crossrail?

On 18 Dec, 18:18, Graeme wrote:

Google deep level tubes, it nearly came to pass if it hadn't been disrupted
by an Austrian painter of limited abilty but limitless ambition.

Perhaps, though one major convenience of the New York system is an
almost zero change time, as the trains run in a single 4-track "cut
and cover" tunnel so the change is always cross-platform. Thus there
is almost always a gain to be had on a journey of any length by
connecting into a fast train. If you had to mess around walking
through tunnels, the gain would be less significant, and people might
be unlikely to want to do it twice[1] in a given journey.

But then again, that's the advantage of a planned city with wide
boulevards, which London isn't - there are nice wide roads to dig up,
whack in some tracks then cover over.

The same probably already applies to the Picc/District situation
towards Heathrow.

[1] Most won't need to, though. People tend to travel *from* the
sticks *to* significant destinations, then back again. This means
they tend to only need one change.

Neil

On Dec 18, 6:36*pm, Neil Williams wrote:
On 18 Dec, 18:04, allanbonnetracy wrote:

It’s not as if we’ve had a huge outcry since services were
discontinued is it?

And the Met Line services aren't overcrowded as a result. *I guess
most of them are seeing it as a pleasant walk - it isn't *that* far
from Farringdon to Moorgate.

Neil

Except the majority of passengers that were using Moorgate are walking
on further e.g. to Bank area, Broadgate, etc.

It may not be far from Moorgate to Broadgate nor far from Farringdon
to Moorgate, but you start adding them together and it becomes a lot
further.

Part of my working week I spend in an office block almost on top
Edgware Road station. I come off the Jubilee at Baker Street. I walk
that.

Edgware Road is not far from Paddington, and I walk that too, if I'm
going that way, and want to say grab some food along Praed St..

But I would not consider walking Baker Street to Paddington unless
there was no option.

--
Nick