I am increasingly being overcharged by Oyster PAYGO at Marylebone, when changing from the Bakerloo line to Chiltern Railways. To do this, you have to touch out of the Underground gates, and then touch in at the Mainline station gates. I have noticed on my statement twice in the last fortnight that due to some kind of clock problem, the touch-in was registered BEFORE the touch-out, and I have been charged for two journeys instead of one. Do you know how I get this problem fixed? There must be hundreds of people being overcharged...

On Jan 27, 8:51*am, KPJ Jones
wrote:
I have discovered I am routinely being overcharged by Oyster PAYGO at
Marylebone, when changing from the Bakerloo line to Chiltern Railways.
To do this, I have to touch out of the Underground gates, and then touch
in at the Mainline station gates. * I have noticed on my statement twice
in the last fortnight that due to some kind of clock problem, the touch
in happened BEFORE the touch out, and I have been charged for two
journeys instead of one. *Do you know how I get this problem fixed?
There must be hundreds of people being overcharged...

First off, it might possibly be helpful if you could tell us the whole
journey you were making - that's the routine response but it helps to
know the whole picture.

Secondly, you can (double-)check what the total through fare (i.e.
Tube plus Chiltern) should be using the TfL Fare Finder he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...inder/current/


(It's worth noting that all journeys on Chiltern will be charged
according to the Tube PAYG fare scale, as opposed to the NR PAYG fare
scale.)

If you want to contact the Oyster bods at TfL about this, I suggest
your best approach is to use the web contact form here - if you click
"Make a complaint" then "Oyster", then "Fares/ Refunds" it'll provide
spaces for all the required details:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/helpandcontact

Many thanks, Mizter T, The journey is Green Park to Rickmansworth. I know the fare is normally £4-70. And I know I can complain to TfL and get a refund - I have done this already. They are more than happy to refund me every time this happens, but claiming for one journey at a time doesn't really help to solve the problem, that I am being regularly and systematically overcharged. And therefore other people will be being overcharged too.

Here is one journey history. When this happens I am overcharged by £1-80. Notice the time of the events.

17:03 Enter Green Park, charge £6-00
17:20 Exit Marylebone (LU), refund £4-20
17:19 Enter Marylebone (NR), charge £6-00
17:50 Exit Rickmansworth, refund £1.30

Total charge £6.50

Most of the journeys I make, the time of step 3 is the same or later than step 2, and the charge at that point is £4-20, which makes the total journey cost £4.70, which is correct.

The problem comes where the time of step 3 appears to be earlier than step 2, and a new journey commences. Obviously in reality the time of step 3 cannot be earlier than step 2. Unless there is a system or clock problem.

"KPJ Jones" wrote in message

Mizter T;103402 Wrote:
First off, it might possibly be helpful if you could tell us the
whole journey you were making - that's the routine response but it
helps to know the whole picture.

Secondly, you can (double-)check what the total through fare (i.e.
Tube plus Chiltern) should be using the TfL Fare Finder he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...nder/current/-
-

(It's worth noting that all journeys on Chiltern will be charged
according to the Tube PAYG fare scale, as opposed to the NR PAYG fare
scale.)

If you want to contact the Oyster bods at TfL about this, I suggest
your best approach is to use the web contact form here - if you click
"Make a complaint" then "Oyster", then "Fares/ Refunds" it'll provide
spaces for all the required details:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/helpandcontact

Many thanks, Mizter T, The journey is Green Park to Rickmansworth. I
know the fare is normally £4-70. And I know I can complain to TfL and
get a refund - I have done this already. They are more than happy to
refund me every time this happens, but claiming for one journey at a
time doesn't really help to solve the problem, that I am being
regularly and systematically overcharged. And therefore other people
will be being overcharged too.

Here is one journey history. When this happens I am overcharged by
£1-80. Notice the time of the events.

17:03 Enter Green Park, charge £6-00
17:20 Exit Marylebone (LU), refund £4-20
17:19 Enter Marylebone (NR), charge £6-00
17:50 Exit Rickmansworth, refund £1.30

Total charge £6.50

Most of the journeys I make, the time of step 3 is the same or later
than step 2, and the charge at that point is £4-20, which makes the
total journey cost £4.70, which is correct.

The problem comes where the time of step 3 appears to be earlier than
step 2, and a new journey commences. Obviously in reality the time of
step 3 cannot be earlier than step 2. Unless there is a system or
clock problem.

Unless you have a very tight connection, why not just wait for a minute
on the Marylebone concourse before passing through the Chiltern gateline
(in any case, you're supposed to do that unless your train is departing
quite soon)?

Unless you have a very tight connection, why not just wait for a minute
on the Marylebone concourse before passing through the Chiltern gateline
(in any case, you're supposed to do that unless your train is departing
quite soon)?




Why should he, just to serve the random whims of a computer system? The
fault should be reported, and the clocks corrected.

"John Swallow" wrote in message

Unless you have a very tight connection, why not just wait for a
minute on the Marylebone concourse before passing through the
Chiltern gateline (in any case, you're supposed to do that unless
your train is departing quite soon)?




Why should he, just to serve the random whims of a computer system?
The fault should be reported, and the clocks corrected.

I thought the clocks were all supposed to be synchronised? But even if
they're not quite accurate, I'd rather wait for a minute on the
concourse than go through all the hassle (and much longer time) of
dealing with the Oyster helpline.

But I've also noticed it can be a bit generous -- sometimes, I've been
charged the off-peak PAYG fare when my (precisely accurate) watch showed
I'd touched in just inside peak time. There was also an occasion when I
reckoned I'd exceeded the allowed two-hour time (because I changed my
mind about going to an event as my journey had been so slow that I'd be
late), and wasn't penalised.

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

"John Swallow" wrote in message

Unless you have a very tight connection, why not just wait for a
minute on the Marylebone concourse before passing through the
Chiltern gateline (in any case, you're supposed to do that unless
your train is departing quite soon)?

Why should he, just to serve the random whims of a computer system?
The fault should be reported, and the clocks corrected.

I thought the clocks were all supposed to be synchronised? But
even if they're not quite accurate, I'd rather wait for a minute on
the concourse than go through all the hassle (and much longer time)
of dealing with the Oyster helpline.

But I've also noticed it can be a bit generous -- sometimes, I've
been charged the off-peak PAYG fare when my (precisely accurate)
watch showed I'd touched in just inside peak time. There was also
an occasion when I reckoned I'd exceeded the allowed two-hour time
(because I changed my mind about going to an event as my journey
had been so slow that I'd be late), and wasn't penalised.

What's annoying is that barriers don't show what they think the time is.
When I had to wait for 19:00 to pass a barrier at Vauxhall, I ended up
waiting till a few minutes past by my (accurate by Greenwich) watch so as
to be sure not to be caught.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in message

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:



I thought the clocks were all supposed to be synchronised? But
even if they're not quite accurate, I'd rather wait for a minute on
the concourse than go through all the hassle (and much longer time)
of dealing with the Oyster helpline.

But I've also noticed it can be a bit generous -- sometimes, I've
been charged the off-peak PAYG fare when my (precisely accurate)
watch showed I'd touched in just inside peak time. There was also
an occasion when I reckoned I'd exceeded the allowed two-hour time
(because I changed my mind about going to an event as my journey
had been so slow that I'd be late), and wasn't penalised.

What's annoying is that barriers don't show what they think the time
is. When I had to wait for 19:00 to pass a barrier at Vauxhall, I
ended up waiting till a few minutes past by my (accurate by
Greenwich) watch so as to be sure not to be caught.

Based on my limited personal testing, I suspect that they're programmed
to be tolerant, so even if their clocks are a minute or two out, the
passenger won't have reason to complain. In other words, perhaps the
peak actually kicks in at, say, 16:02 and stops at 18:58. Perhaps not
on the same system, but platform clocks now seem to be precisely correct
(they may have individual radio-controls, just like I have on my watch
and clocks at home).

On Jan 30, 1:16*pm, "Recliner" wrote:

"John Swallow" wrote:

Unless you have a very tight connection, why not just wait for a
minute on the Marylebone concourse before passing through the
Chiltern gateline (in any case, you're supposed to do that unless
your train is departing quite soon)?

Why should he, just to serve the random whims of a computer system?
The fault should be reported, and the clocks corrected.

I thought the clocks were all supposed to be synchronised? *But even if
they're not quite accurate, I'd rather wait for a minute on the
concourse than go through all the hassle (and much longer time) of
dealing with the Oyster helpline.

I also thought all the the clocks were supposed to be in sync too.

Re dealing with the Oyster customer service bods - filling out the
secure online form on the TfL website - here http://www.tfl.gov.uk/
helpandcontact - is probably less painful than calling them up.

Of course one might hope that if you call up the helpline, you might
be able to explain the repeated nature of the problem, hough I suppose
you could say this in the online form submission too. The problem is
getting the message through to the right people - i.e. the back room
techies, rather than the front line CS staff (who might well be
hamstrung somewhat by having a rigid proceedure they have to follow).
However If one was to report it often enough and get a refund, then
one would hope the issue would get flagged up eventually because it's
a repetitive problem.


But I've also noticed it can be a bit generous -- sometimes, I've been
charged the off-peak PAYG fare when my (precisely accurate) watch showed
I'd touched in just inside peak time. There was also an occasion when I
reckoned I'd exceeded the allowed two-hour time (because I changed my
mind about going to an event as my journey had been so slow that I'd be
late), and wasn't penalised.

As you go on to say later, it's quite possible - likely, even - that
there's a degree of tolerance in the system w.r.t. the peak/ off-peak
period shift.

Regarding the maximum journey time limit - this changed from two hours
to two and a half hours some time ago (a year or two ago), and was
subsequently changed again - it's now no longer a unilaterally fixed
limit but is now variable - the variables being the length of the
journey (that is, how many zones you pass through), and also the time
and day of the journey (e.g. journeys on sundays are allowed more time
because of the less frequent service).

Peter Smyth put in an FOI request for this info last year, and posted
the results here on utl - see (via gg):
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tr...4747db850d431f

(Of course I suppose these time limits might have changed since then,
but I haven't come across anything to suggest they have.)

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
But I've also noticed it can be a bit generous -- sometimes, I've
been
charged the off-peak PAYG fare when my (precisely accurate) watch
showed
I'd touched in just inside peak time. There was also an occasion when
I
reckoned I'd exceeded the allowed two-hour time (because I changed my
mind about going to an event as my journey had been so slow that I'd
be
late), and wasn't penalised.

As you go on to say later, it's quite possible - likely, even - that
there's a degree of tolerance in the system w.r.t. the peak/ off-peak
period shift.

Regarding the maximum journey time limit - this changed from two hours
to two and a half hours some time ago (a year or two ago), and was
subsequently changed again - it's now no longer a unilaterally fixed
limit but is now variable - the variables being the length of the
journey (that is, how many zones you pass through), and also the time
and day of the journey (e.g. journeys on sundays are allowed more time
because of the less frequent service).

Peter Smyth put in an FOI request for this info last year, and posted
the results here on utl - see (via gg):
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tr...4747db850d431f

(Of course I suppose these time limits might have changed since then,
but I haven't come across anything to suggest they have.)

They have been changed since then. The maximum journey times are now
helpfully on the TfL website at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/12421.aspx

Peter Smyth