In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up anyone
who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only one
passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to the
operator and have the booking changed to two people.

I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing? I never get asked
how many people are involved when I book a private hire car outside
London, and if they had ever refused to take my wife with me I'd
certainly have noticed!
--
Roland Perry

In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:

Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.

I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

I think that the driver in the case concerned was applying the real
letter of the law in order to extract a bit more cash for the fare,
since he wasn't actually touting. But I suspect he was technically
correct because the passenger who made the booking had presumably only
booked for one person.
--
Paul Terry

In message , at 17:31:54 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.

I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

So they can't take a commission to collect "Mr Perry's party" without me
first saying how many people it is? (Modulo less than a car full).
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

So they can't take a commission to collect "Mr Perry's party"
without me first saying how many people it is? (Modulo less than a
car full).

Of course they can.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 17:41:32
on Sat, 20 Feb 2010, remarked:
So they can't take a commission to collect "Mr Perry's party"
without me first saying how many people it is? (Modulo less than a
car full).

Of course they can.

So Paul Terry seems somewhat outvoted on this issue.
--
Roland Perry

In message , Roland Perry
writes

So they can't take a commission to collect "Mr Perry's party" without
me first saying how many people it is? (Modulo less than a car full).

It's entirely up to the operator how they take the booking. Almost all
WWW booking forms ask for the number of passengers along with a mountain
of other details. Telephone operators may or may not ask for such
information.

However, if a company is willing to take a booking for just "a car to
Heathrow" without the knowledge that there are five passengers, two of
whom require child seats and one of whom is disabled, and that there is
a wheelchair, eight large suitcases, two pairs of skis, a double bass
and a guide dog among the party, everyone is going to be disappointed if
a Ford Escort turns up for the job.

So Paul Terry seems somewhat outvoted on this issue.

I don't mind being outvoted in the slightest, but it was not me that
wrote "PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire" ... it was TfL.

As I said, I think the driver concerned was just using this as an excuse
to bump up the fare. However, there is no regulation of the fares
charged for private hire - operators can set whatever conditions they
wish.

--
Paul Terry

"Paul Terry" wrote in message

In message , Roland Perry
writes

So they can't take a commission to collect "Mr Perry's party" without
me first saying how many people it is? (Modulo less than a car full).

It's entirely up to the operator how they take the booking. Almost all
WWW booking forms ask for the number of passengers along with a
mountain of other details. Telephone operators may or may not ask for
such information.

However, if a company is willing to take a booking for just "a car to
Heathrow" without the knowledge that there are five passengers, two of
whom require child seats and one of whom is disabled, and that there
is a wheelchair, eight large suitcases, two pairs of skis, a double
bass and a guide dog among the party, everyone is going to be
disappointed if a Ford Escort turns up for the job.

Given that the Ford Escort went out of production in 2000, I think even
a group of two passengers might be disappointed if a shabby, 10+ year
old small car turns up to collect them.

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:18:37 +0000, Paul Terry
wrote:

However, if a company is willing to take a booking for just "a car to
Heathrow" without the knowledge that there are five passengers, two of
whom require child seats and one of whom is disabled, and that there is
a wheelchair, eight large suitcases, two pairs of skis, a double bass
and a guide dog among the party, everyone is going to be disappointed if
a Ford Escort turns up for the job.

I don't think I ever saw an Escort as a taxi. But I would say it's
generally down to the passenger to say when booking if a fairly
standard-sized saloon car won't do, as that's what you generally get
if you don't specify anything else.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 20 Feb, 17:31, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.
I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

I think that the driver in the case concerned was applying the real
letter of the law in order to extract a bit more cash for the fare,
since he wasn't actually touting. But I suspect he was technically
correct because the passenger who made the booking had presumably only
booked for one person.


So how is that resolved by asking for more money?

Surely taking the extra person for free would not be touting, but
charging extra would be.

On Feb 20, 5:31*pm, Paul Terry wrote:

In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.
I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

I think that the driver in the case concerned was applying the real
letter of the law in order to extract a bit more cash for the fare,
since he wasn't actually touting. But I suspect he was technically
correct because the passenger who made the booking had presumably only
booked for one person.

Sorry Paul but I have never come across a minicab firm in London that
demands to know how exactly many passengers are being picked up for a
normal booking - obviously if it's five or more people then you're
into booking a people carrier territory, that or two minicabs, but
never has the minicab office wanted to know whether it was one, two,
three or four passengers. Nor have I ever come across a minicab that
has turned up and refused passengers because there's too many
passengers (if the number of passengers is higher than one but no more
than four, of course). Minicab firms book "cars" (i.e. carloads) , not
individual passengers.

I really don't think it could possibly count as "plying for trade"
when a minicab picks up three passengers instead of two. Nor does
picking up someone else en route count either i.e. someone else known
to the existing passengers. All sorts of completely normal
arrangements would be considered null and void under your above
reading of the rules.

The whole anti-"plying for trade" rule is about prohibiting minicab
drivers from roaming the streets looking for a non-booked job - i.e.
those minicab drivers milling around outside a club or bar at kicking
out time, or those who do slow drive-bys next to night bus stops
trying to pick up a fare. Both of which still happen.