On 3 July, 11:44, Mizter T wrote:
On Jul 3, 10:05*am, MIG wrote:





On 2 July, 23:30, Matthew Geier
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 13:47:15 -0700, Andrew Cullen wrote:
Oyster was meant to
be updated to ITSO technology but it doesn't appear to be happening.. I
believe its a similar situation at SWT.

*They have changed something, last year when in London, I discovered the
LU readers were responding to my Singapore CEPAS card, where as the
Oyster readers on the buses were ignoring it.

*In fact they were responding to the CEPAS card while it was still in my
pocket and I was holding the Oyster in my hand next to the gate reader.

Mizter T wrote on 03 July 2010 11:48:28 ...

On Jul 3, 9:55 am, "Richard wrote:

Mizter wrote on 03 July 2010 07:58:32 ...

On Jul 3, 7:34 am, Paul wrote:

Andrew wrote:
Oyster was meant to be updated to ITSO technology but it doesn't appear
to be happening. I believe its a similar situation at SWT.

I think that the basics for Oyster/ITSO compatibility must be in place,
because all Freedom passes issued in the last few months speak ITSO as
well as Oyster (although I imagine that the Oyster implementation is
quite basic on Freedom cards).

Though the Freedom Pass change need not necessarily have meant any
changes on the validator side of things - the new Freedom Pass being a
combined MiFare (Oyster) and ITSO standard card.

According to the London Councils site, TfL did have to make changes to
their gates and reader network to handle the new cards.

Yes, I recall that. I wonder whether those changes may have actually
been about equipping the gates to handle the new "MiFare DESFire" card
type that TfL is now using for Oyster cards (as opposed to the older
"MiFare Classic") - presumably the Oyster side of the Freedom Pass (as
opposed to the ITSO side) is a DESFire card, IYSWIM.

Yes, it is. My understanding is that TfL have moved to the DESFire card
for Oyster, and that the 1.3 million new Freedom Passes were the first
of them. TfL procured the cards and loaded the Oyster application on
them, and some other organisation then added an ITSO application to
enable use on ITSO-enabled buses outside London.

For new Oyster cards, LU ticket offices were intending to use up their
stocks of MiFare Classic cards before switching to the DESFire cards.
That may have happened by now.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Jul 3, 12:27*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote
I *think* part of the reason SWT were so difficult about coming round
to the idea of accepting Oyster PAYG within London was that they were
in some dispute with the DfT as to how their ITSO smartcard scheme
would function alongside Oyster - I speculate that one of the problems
may have been the details as to how to get these two systems to mesh -
with DfT perhaps attempting to wash their hands of the details, and
TfL only really being interested in deploying the Oyster system (what
with the ITSO smartcard system being an SWT franchise commitment,
rather than something that directly involves TfL).

From the point of view of the passenger with a travelcard season from
Guildford to Zone 2 he wants a ticket which will open gates wherever his
ticket is valid. He also wants to load PAYG on to it for journeys into zone
1. His card will presumably have to be both ITSO and Oyster compatible, but
he won't want complications (or double charging) if he goes through a gate
with both capabilities.

The short answer to that scenario is that I'd say we're some way off
an outboundary Travelcard (e.g. from Guildford) being issued on a
smartcard.

On Jul 3, 1:27*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

On Jul 2, 10:15 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

There are a fair number of ITSO smartcard gatelines already operational
on SWT's main routes (although outside London), so St Pancras is not
the first...

--------------------

You mean (I think) ITSO *and* Oyster compatible gates - all SWT
gatelines within the London zones (e.g. the massive array at Waterloo,
Surbiton, Earlsfield etc etc).

No, I meant 'outside' the London zonal area, where they are ITSO compatble,
but not Oyster compatible, and the 'Stagecoach Smart' card is in use.

Indeed - sorry, misread that bit.


AFAICT the ITSO/Oyster dual operation within the zones is still not ready..

No, doesn't appear to be.

On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 03:34:06 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:


On Jul 3, 9:15 am, Arthur Figgis wrote:

On 03/07/2010 07:40, Mizter T wrote:

On Jul 2, 10:15 pm, "Paul
There are a fair number of ITSO smartcard gatelines already operational on
SWT's main routes (although outside London), so St Pancras is not the
first...

You mean (I think) ITSO *and* Oyster compatible gates - all SWT
gatelines within the London zones (e.g. the massive array at Waterloo,
Surbiton, Earlsfield etc etc).

There are are readers (though not gates) at least as far away at
Brockenhurst and Sherbourne, and I don't [think] those non-London
ones take Oyster?

I can only assume that these standalone smartcard readers don't read
Oyster - because they have no need to read Oyster, given that Oyster
ticketing is not valid outside of London

pantomime
Oh yes it is !
/pantomime
Oyster validity does not stop at all parts of the Greater London
boundary. See zones 7, 8 and 9 and various bus routes.


(ok - a Travelcard loaded on
Oyster in conjunction with a Boundary Zone extension ticket is valid,
but you know what I mean!).

So we have gatelines with smartcard readers that have dual-capability
- Oyster *and* ITSO (for the forthcoming SWT smartcard) - the question
in my mind is whether they'll manage to sort out standalone smartcard
readers that also have this dual-capability, for installation at non-
gated stations within the London zones.

Example - North Sheen is an SWT station within the London zones that's
unlikely to ever be gated. At present it has a standalone Oyster
reader - what needs to happen is for that reader to be capable of
reading ITSO-standard railway smartcard (e.g. the forthcoming SWT
smartcard). The situation that absolutely needs to be avoided is for
there to be two separate smartcard readers side-by-side - an Oyster
reader and an ITSO card reader - because this would just cause maximum
passenger confusion. The worry, of course, is that it's all to easy to
see something utterly daft like this happening!

I *think* part of the reason SWT were so difficult about coming round
to the idea of accepting Oyster PAYG within London was that they were
in some dispute with the DfT as to how their ITSO smartcard scheme
would function alongside Oyster - I speculate that one of the problems
may have been the details as to how to get these two systems to mesh -
with DfT perhaps attempting to wash their hands of the details, and
TfL only really being interested in deploying the Oyster system (what
with the ITSO smartcard system being an SWT franchise commitment,
rather than something that directly involves TfL).