On Wed, 7 Jul 2010 10:21:47 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

There are plenty all around the system. LU should change their moto to
Never Knowingly Early. Its fine for a train to be late but god forbid its
running slightly early - then you'll be sitting at a platform for 2 minutes
going nowhere.

It's not a bad railway rule to never accept early running, as that
means people miss the train. On much of LUL, that doesn't matter, but
on the Circle, H&C and Met, where frequencies are lower, people may
well be attempting to do so.

It's a rule I'd like to see apply to local buses. A couple of minutes
late = annoying but tolerable. One minute early = unacceptable in my
mind, though up to 5 minutes early is permitted by current rules,
IIRC.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

Paul Corfield wrote on 07 July 2010 19:48:02 ...
On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:57:53 +0100, "Richard J."
wrote:

wrote on 06 July 2010 22:01:07 ...

How sad, the old victoria Line stock was comfortable and, in its time,
technically advanced. From what I read here the replacement stock
lacks its level of comfort.

I don't really like the new stock - I suppose I should like it but they
are a real disappointment [1]. The seats are too narrow, the seat
"cushions" have no cushioning and they are far too hard. The tip up
seats are little better - having had to endure one the other evening. I
pointed all this out at the mock up visit at Euston but clearly no one
took any notice.

There are also silly things like the windows are far too small and don't
stretch the entire length of the seating bay - this is a really
retrograde step in my view. Given the number of cross platform
interchanges on the Vic Line it can be important to be able to see the
opposite platform but the end seats in every bay have a wretched panel
opposite them rather than a window.

I don't understand that comment. Why is it "important" to be able to
see the opposite platform before you leave the train?

[snip]
On the contrary, it manages to stop at the right place every time
without the driver having to use the emergency brake, which makes it
much more comfortable for standing passengers than 67 stock.

Not in my experience - one had to crawl along a few millimetres at Seven
Sisters the other morning. I'm sure I've had other trains "micro
adjust" their stopping point.

Crawling a few millimetres will still be more comfortable than using the
emergency brake.

And having
all longitudinal seating means more space for standing passengers, so
that's a comfort benefit too. I can't comment on seat comfort as
they're always full up when I travel, which I suppose means they can't
be that bad. :-)

All the longitudinal seating means is that there are fewer seats which
is no good really.

"No good" from whose point of view? Not from the point of view of
people who would have been left on the platform because of the lower
capacity of 67 stock.

Basically my point was that in terms of moving large numbers of
passengers in safety and reasonable comfort, the new trains are a better
fit-for-purpose than the old ones. All this stuff about the view from
the windows and whether the seats need more padding for your 10-minute
journey sound a bit Luddite to me. I take your point about hand-holds
for standing passengers, which are important. (In that context I've
never understood why the rail above the doors in 92 stock is a
near-invisible grey instead of the red of all the other hand-holds.)

Two other queries:

- In your experience how does the ventilation system compare with 67
stock? The window configuration is partly determined by the ducting
between the low-level air intakes and the outlets at head height, which
was supposed to improve ventilation.

- Have the problems with the doors been related to the new "sensitive
edge" feature to detect obstructions?

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

wrote in message
news:jg4Zn.46082$cJ6.13572@hurricane...
On 07/07/2010 11:19, Paul Scott wrote:

What about for the Island Line? Any going that way?

No - 'Island line' is to get 73 stock, according to SWT a few months ago.


What's the timeframe on that?

They didn't say, I guess it'll depend purely on when the stock gets replaced
on LU - so whenever the 2014 (???) stock starts arriving in large numbers?

Paul S

On 07/07/2010 21:52, Paul Scott wrote:


wrote in message
news:jg4Zn.46082$cJ6.13572@hurricane...
On 07/07/2010 11:19, Paul Scott wrote:

What about for the Island Line? Any going that way?

No - 'Island line' is to get 73 stock, according to SWT a few months
ago.


What's the timeframe on that?

They didn't say, I guess it'll depend purely on when the stock gets
replaced on LU - so whenever the 2014 (???) stock starts arriving in
large numbers?

Paul S

That's five to six years. Will the 38s hold out that long? I've heard
that they are really not in great shape.

On Wed, 7 Jul 2010 17:29:16 +0100
"Paul Scott" wrote:
"1506" wrote in message
...
On Jul 7, 3:19 am, "Paul Scott"

No - 'Island line' is to get 73 stock, according to SWT a few months ago.

Given that the IoW now routinely seems to utilize ex-TfL stock one has
to wonder why they do not go ahead and install a fourth rail. It
would save converting the trains after each purchase.

Cheaper to convert the trains, than provide an entire LU style pos/neg power
supply, I expect

I remember reading somewhere many years ago that the newer trains won't be
as easy to convert to 3rd rail as the simple older stuff because of something
to do with electrical isolation issues with the axles and traction equipment.
Or something along those lines.

I could be remembering wrong of course.

B2003

On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 20:46:40 +0100
Neil Williams wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jul 2010 10:21:47 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

There are plenty all around the system. LU should change their moto to
Never Knowingly Early. Its fine for a train to be late but god forbid its
running slightly early - then you'll be sitting at a platform for 2 minutes
going nowhere.

It's not a bad railway rule to never accept early running, as that
means people miss the train. On much of LUL, that doesn't matter, but
on the Circle, H&C and Met, where frequencies are lower, people may
well be attempting to do so.

I can understand delaying an early train at slack times when the trains are
half full or even empty. But doing it in the rush hour when no one else is
going to fit on the train anyway is utterly pointless. All it does is delay
everyone on the train and make them even hotter and more ****ed off than
they'd otherwise be.

B2003

On Jul 7, 5:16*pm, 1506 wrote:
On Jul 7, 3:19*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote: wrote in message

news:EPOYn.108845$m87.80874@hurricane...

What about for the Island Line? Any going that way?

No - 'Island line' is to get 73 stock, according to SWT a few months ago.

Given that the IoW now routinely seems to utilize ex-TfL stock one has
to wonder why they do not go ahead and install a fourth rail. *It
would save converting the trains after each purchase.

It will be sad to see the all over red stock retire.

I've never understood why they didn't grab some 1983 stock when they
had the chance. Decades newer than what they've got and the single
leaf doors wouldn't have been a problem on the IOW.

RPM

I've never understood why they didn't grab some 1983 stock when they
had the chance. Decades newer than what they've got and the single
leaf doors wouldn't have been a problem on the IOW.

Presumably because at the time, the (at the time, recently
refurbished) stock was still fit for purpose, and replacing it with
the ex-Jubilee stock would have been a false economy. Perhaps if
there were six or seven units of 83 stock available now, then it might
be worthwhile, but with 69 stock becoming available soon, I think
there's a strong possibility that some of them will head to Grockle-
Central, rather than straight to CF Booth's tin-can factory.

"Matt Forbes" wrote in message

I've never understood why they didn't grab some 1983 stock when they
had the chance. Decades newer than what they've got and the single
leaf doors wouldn't have been a problem on the IOW.

Presumably because at the time, the (at the time, recently
refurbished) stock was still fit for purpose, and replacing it with
the ex-Jubilee stock would have been a false economy. Perhaps if
there were six or seven units of 83 stock available now, then it might
be worthwhile, but with 69 stock becoming available soon, I think
there's a strong possibility that some of them will head to Grockle-
Central, rather than straight to CF Booth's tin-can factory.

I presume you mean 1967 stock. I assume that driving it in purely
manual mode in short formation won't be a problem?

In article
,
(RPM) wrote:

On Jul 7, 5:16*pm, 1506 wrote:
On Jul 7, 3:19*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote: wrote in message

news:EPOYn.108845$m87.80874@hurricane...

What about for the Island Line? Any going that way?

No - 'Island line' is to get 73 stock, according to SWT a few months
ago.

Given that the IoW now routinely seems to utilize ex-TfL stock one has
to wonder why they do not go ahead and install a fourth rail. *It
would save converting the trains after each purchase.

It will be sad to see the all over red stock retire.

I've never understood why they didn't grab some 1983 stock when they
had the chance. Decades newer than what they've got and the single
leaf doors wouldn't have been a problem on the IOW.

The unreliable traction systems might have been a problem, though, not to
mention underframe corrosion issues.

--
Colin Rosenstiel