On Aug 7, 12:36*pm, "Recliner" wrote:
wrote in message



On 6 Aug, 16:15, Basil Jet wrote:

I believe that plan died a few years ago.

I've certainly seen it alive more recently than that; I think it's
died and been revived several times over the years. *I suspect that
it's probably dead now, at least until the present economic climate
improves.

Probably longer than that -- Chiltern is now more focused on serving
longer distance routes (Brum, and soon Oxford, and maybe even Miltpn
Keynes), not suburban London. It provides a minimal service to its other
London stations, and wouldn't want to have stopping local trains holding
up its increasing number of fast, longer distance trains.

If that is indeed the case, I wonder if shallow travelators west to
Edgware Road and east to Baker St. from Marylebone might be preferred
options instead? Yeah there's the Bakerloo, but it's pointless if all
you want to do is change to the SSL lines one station away, as it
takes so long going down to the platforms and back up again. I still
think moving the Met interchange to West Hampstead is worthwhile
though, if only for the NLL and Thameslink interchanges it adds.
Passive provision (i.e. spaces) for Chiltern platforms would probably
be more than sufficient for the time being.

On Aug 6, 12:28*pm, mistral
wrote:
Does anyone know if there any plans to build any new stations and/or
extra platforms to link up some of the existing bits of rail
infrastructure in the London area? Some of the proposals/ideas below are
more ambitious than others, but here's a list of some possible
interchanges. Broadly, they're listed in A to Z page order, starting in
NW London and finishing in the SE.

==============
Fantasy Stations
==============

1. Draycott Avenue (Northwick Park): Bakerloo, Chiltern (Aylesbury
line), Metropolitan
2. Peel Centre (Hendon): Northern, MML
3. Harringay Green Lanes: ECML, Goblin, Piccadilly (via travelator) to a
new station. *
4. Durnford Street (South Tottenham): GEL (Enfield Town line), Goblin,
Victoria via travelator to Seven Sisters
5. Jarrow Road (Tottenham Hale): GEL (Lea Valley Line), Goblin
6. Walthamstow Queens Road: GEL (Chingford line), Goblin, Victoria
7. Blenheim Crescent (Ruislip): Central, Chiltern (High Wycombe line),
Metropolitan
8. Wood End (South Harrow): Chiltern (High Wycombe line), Piccadilly
9. Wembley St. Johns: Bakerloo, Chiltern (High Wycombe line), WCML
10. East Neasden: Chiltern, Jubilee, Metropolitan, KC
11. West Hampstead: Chiltern, Jubilee, Metropolitan, MML, NLL
12. South Hampstead: Jubilee, Metropolitan, WCML
13. Belsize Park: MML, Northern
14. Chalk Farm: Northern, WCML
15. Rosslyn Hill: NLL, Northern
16. York Way (Camden): ECML, NLL
17. Cedar Way (Camden): MML, NLL
18. Tufnell Park: Goblin, Northern
19. Hackney Central: GEL (Lea Valley Line), NLL
20. Leytonstone High Road: Central, Goblin
21. Balmoral Road (Manor Park): GEL, Goblin
22. Park Royal: Central, Piccadilly
23. East Ealing: Central, District, GW
24. Harlesden: Bakerloo, KC, WCML
25. Old Oak Common (Acton): Central, GW, KC, NLL
26. Mitre Bridge (Willesden): GW, WLL
27. Silver Road (Shepherds Bush): HC, WLL
28. St Pauls (Central/Thameslink)
29. Shoreditch High Street (ELL/Central/Gt Eastern)
30. Rainhill Way (Bow): District, DLR
31. Ivy Crescent (Acton Green): District, KC, NLL
32. Thames Road (Chiswick): NLL, SWT (Hounslow Loop line)
33. Southwark: Jubilee, SER, Thameslink
34. East Putney: District, SWT
35. Loughborough Junction: ELL (Clapham Junction line), SET, Thameslink

36. Croxted Road (Dulwich): SR (Peckham - Tulse Hill line), SET (Herne
Hill - Penge line)
37. Brockley: ELL (New Cross Gate - Croydon line), SET (Lewisham -
Peckham line)
38. Howson Road (Brockley): ELL (New Cross Gate - Croydon line), SET
(Catford - Peckham line)
39. Tooting Graveney: Northern, SR (Streatham - Wimbledon line)
40. Streatham Junction: SR (Clapham Junction - Croydon line), SR
(Streatham - Sutton/Wimbledon line)
41. Leigham (Tulse Hill): SR (Clapham Junction - Crystal Palace line),
SR (Tulse Hill - Streatham line)
42. Penge: ELL (New Cross Gate - Croydon line), SET (Dulwich - Beckenham
Junction line)
43. The Vineries (Catford): SET (Lewisham - Elmers End line), SET
(Catford - Peckham line)
44. Selby Road (Anerley): ELL (New Cross Gate - Croydon line), SET
(Crystal Palace - Beckenham Junction line)
45. Meadow Way (Beckenham): CT, SET (Crystal Palace - Beckenham Junction
line), SET (Lewisham - Elmers End line)
46. Bickley Junction: SET (Bromley South - Swanley line), SET (New Cross
- Orpington line)

There are bound to be some errors, but hopefully you get the general
idea. Is there any chance of any of these ideas coming to fruition in
the near future, or like Wood Lane, will it take the best part of 25
years to go from initial idea to actual completion?

==========
Abbreviations
==========

CT = Croydon Tramlink
DLR = Docklands Light Railway
ECML = East Coast Main Line (ex Kings Cross)
ELL = East London Line
GEL = Great Eastern Line (ex Liverpool Street)
Goblin = Gospel Oak to Barking line
GW = Great Western (ex Paddington)
HC = Hammersmith and City Line
KC = Kew to Cricklewood line
MML = Midland Main Line (ex St. Pancras)
NLL = North London Line from Richmond to Stratford
SET = South Eastern Trains
SR = Southern Railway
SWT = South West Trains
WCML = West Coast Main Line (ex Euston)
WLL = West London Line from Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction

Beyond that, there are similar places in the SE such as Farnborough,
Edenbridge and Maidstone where a station to link passing railway lines
might come in handy.

--
mistral

My suggestion to add to that list would be a large junction station
(Surrey Canal Junction?) in the triangle between the SE and Southern
lines adjacent to the new LO depot (on the site of the waste disposal
facility and maybe the light industrial units to the south east of
it). This would replace the proposed Surrey Canal Road station with
one with platforms on the LO lines, all 4 Southern Lines, and all 6 or
so SE lines. and perhaps even some Crossrail-dimensioned platform
tunnels underneath for a future N-S line. The intended analogy being
with Clapham Junction, Stratford, and Willesden Junction. You might
even get some money out of Millwall to help pay for it. The primary
benefits would be reducing pressure on London Bridge by offering inter-
mainline interchange opportunities before it, and by providing zone 2
interchange with the southern mainlines and LO.

In message op.vg09em1lby8eno@sheepdog, at 21:19:24 on Fri, 6 Aug 2010,
Colin McKenzie remarked:
22. Park Royal: Central, Piccadilly

Anyone know what happened to this one? A few years ago it seemed to
be going ahead.

The office development that was to fund it has stalled. Theoretically
it's still a requirement if all the offices get built, but London
Underground were never keen, and the condition is likely to be dropped
if housing is built instead of offices.

A pity, and I still hope it goes ahead. It's easy to work out that
passengers from further out on Piccadilly or Central lines, going to a
zone 1 or 2 destination on the other line, benefit from changing at
Park Royal. So does LU, as it reduces number of stations passed and
number of interchanges made in zone 1, where tube capacity is most
strained. And they're more likely to get a seat. But this sort of
lateral thinking seems to be beyond London Underground.

It's also possible that people living "further out on the Piccadilly"
would use it as a short cut to/from the West End, thereby overloading
the Central.
--
Roland Perry

On 10 Aug, 07:59, Roland Perry wrote:
In message op.vg09em1lby8eno@sheepdog, at 21:19:24 on Fri, 6 Aug 2010,
Colin McKenzie remarked:





22. Park Royal: Central, Piccadilly

Anyone know what happened to this one? A few years ago it seemed to
be * going ahead.

The office development that was to fund it has stalled. Theoretically
it's *still a requirement if all the offices get built, but London
Underground *were never keen, and the condition is likely to be dropped
if housing is *built instead of offices.

A pity, and I still hope it goes ahead. It's easy to work out that
passengers from further out on Piccadilly or Central lines, going to a
zone 1 or 2 destination on the other line, benefit from changing at
Park *Royal. So does LU, as it reduces number of stations passed and
number of *interchanges made in zone 1, where tube capacity is most
strained. And *they're more likely to get a seat. But this sort of
lateral thinking seems *to be beyond London Underground.

It's also possible that people living "further out on the Piccadilly"
would use it as a short cut to/from the West End, thereby overloading
the Central.
--
Roland Perry- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One (relatively cheap) proposal would be to extend the Northern Line
from Morden to Morden South and provide an interchange with the
station on the Wimbledon - Sutton loop. This would be useful for
people living in the Sutton area. On the other hand, it might overload
the Northern Line, which wouldn't go down well with people in Tooting,
Balham and Clapham. Would this be feasible if the Northern Line were
ever permanently split in two?

On Aug 6, 12:28*pm, mistral
wrote:
Does anyone know if there any plans to build any new stations and/or
extra platforms to link up some of the existing bits of rail
infrastructure in the London area? Some of the proposals/ideas below are
more ambitious than others, but here's a list of some possible
interchanges. Broadly, they're listed in A to Z page order, starting in
NW London and finishing in the SE.

==============
Fantasy Stations
==============


6. Walthamstow Queens Road: GEL (Chingford line), Goblin, Victoria

Not a station per se but Waltham Forest Council are apparently taking
legal action to force the developers of the housing at the west end of
the car park at Walthamstow Central to provide the footpath that was a
condition of planning consent. There is also a more expensive option
of creating a new entrance to the GOBLIN station on Selbourne Road
which would make the station much more accessible to the High Street
area. You don't need a new station here - you just a safe, accessible
and convenient link which we should have had 10 years ago!

18. Tufnell Park: Goblin, Northern

Long demanded by the user group for GOBLIN but there are no firm plans
for an Overground Station. There wouldn't be an integrated station
from what I understand - just station very close by giving convenient
interchange.

19. Hackney Central: GEL (Lea Valley Line), NLL

Network Rail were supposed to have this in their plans years ago. It
then disappeared from view. However there is increased pressure to
provide the interchange - possibly linked to the Access for All
proposals for Hackney Central. This would be a huge improvement if it
were to be provided.

25. Old Oak Common (Acton): Central, GW, KC, NLL

Depends entirely on Crossrail and High Speed developments. The local
authority is lobbying hard but given all the doubts about Crossrail
and High Speed development who knows what will happen.

29. Shoreditch High Street (ELL/Central/Gt Eastern)

That'll never happen. Way too expensive and stopping services on very
busy lines will create significant passenger disbenefits.

--
Paul C

On Aug 10, 7:59*am, Roland Perry wrote:

In message op.vg09em1lby8eno@sheepdog, at 21:19:24 on
Fri, 6 Aug 2010, Colin McKenzie remarked:

22. Park Royal: Central, Piccadilly

Anyone know what happened to this one? A few years ago it seemed to
be going ahead.

The office development that was to fund it has stalled. Theoretically
it's *still a requirement if all the offices get built, but London
Underground *were never keen, and the condition is likely to be dropped
if housing is *built instead of offices.

A pity, and I still hope it goes ahead. It's easy to work out that
passengers from further out on Piccadilly or Central lines, going to a
zone 1 or 2 destination on the other line, benefit from changing at
Park *Royal. So does LU, as it reduces number of stations passed and
number of *interchanges made in zone 1, where tube capacity is most
strained. And *they're more likely to get a seat. But this sort of
lateral thinking seems *to be beyond London Underground.

It's also possible that people living "further out on the Piccadilly"
would use it as a short cut to/from the West End, thereby overloading
the Central.

Yeah, I had similar thoughts. Still, it would serve to make the
Rayners Lane branch of the Piccadilly more useful.

On Aug 10, 8:09*am, Paul wrote:
[snip]
One (relatively cheap) proposal would be to extend the Northern Line
from Morden to Morden South and provide an interchange with the
station on the Wimbledon - Sutton loop. *This would be useful for
people living in the Sutton area. On the other hand, it might overload
the Northern Line, which wouldn't go down well with people in Tooting,
Balham and Clapham. *Would this be feasible if the Northern Line were
ever permanently split in two?

The City branch of the Northern line is already crammed solid during
rush hour - even if the line is eventually split, and super-dooper new
ATO signalling means services can run more frequently, it still
wouldn't create the kind of capacity that could cope with untold extra
passengers joining the line at a new station south of Morden.

I think conversion to tram operation (as part of Tramlink) would be
the most promising course of action for the Wimbledon-Sutton 'wall of
death' line, though quite how that'd be handled at the Wimbledon end
is another question. Well, for that matter, how it'd be handled at the
Sutton end is also a very valid question!

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote:
It's also possible that people living "further out on the Piccadilly"
would use it as a short cut to/from the West End, thereby overloading
the Central.

Yeah, I had similar thoughts. Still, it would serve to make the
Rayners Lane branch of the Piccadilly more useful.

The central seems to cope with an interchange with the district at stratford
where I'm sure a load of people change onto the central to continue to
the city and west end so I can't see a lightly used branch like rayners lane
unduly affecting the central much in the other direction.

B2003

On Aug 10, 8:22*am, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Aug 6, 12:28*pm, mistral
wrote:

Does anyone know if there any plans to build any new stations and/or
extra platforms to link up some of the existing bits of rail
infrastructure in the London area? Some of the proposals/ideas below are
more ambitious than others, but here's a list of some possible
interchanges. Broadly, they're listed in A to Z page order, starting in
NW London and finishing in the SE.

==============
Fantasy Stations
==============

6. Walthamstow Queens Road: GEL (Chingford line), Goblin, Victoria

Not a station per se but Waltham Forest Council are apparently taking
legal action to force the developers of the housing at the west end of
the car park at Walthamstow Central to provide the footpath that was a
condition of planning consent. *There is also a more expensive option
of creating a new entrance to the GOBLIN station on Selbourne Road
which would make the station much more accessible to the High Street
area. *You don't need a new station here - you just a safe, accessible
and convenient link which we should have had 10 years ago!

Good to hear that about the council's plans. It's so damn obvious
really - but alas, being damn obvious often doesn't mean much when it
comes to actually getting such things done!


18. Tufnell Park: Goblin, Northern

Long demanded by the user group for GOBLIN but there are no firm plans
for an Overground Station. There wouldn't be an integrated station
from what I understand - just station very close by giving convenient
interchange.

I can't see how there could be an integrated station - at least not
without very substantial reconstruction, which wouldn't ever be on the
agenda.

I dunno how many people on the GOBLIN use Upper Holloway to get to
Archway for the Northern line, but at only a five minutes
straightforward walk apart it'd surely make sense for a number of
journeys.


19. Hackney Central: GEL (Lea Valley Line), NLL

Network Rail were supposed to have this in their plans years ago. It
then disappeared from view. However there is increased pressure to
provide the interchange - possibly linked to the Access for All
proposals for Hackney Central. This would be a huge improvement if it
were to be provided.

Hackney Downs station is in serious need of a good bit of work done on
it, I'd say - cramped entrance and generally dingy and grotty
throughout, a good example of how not to do an urban station. I'm
quite sure that there's a fair number of people who're coming back
from town later in the evening who head to Hackney Central via the Vic
line and NLL (interchanging at H&I) instead of using Hackney Downs
station - Hackney Central being staffed (as an LO station), well lit,
well kept and all that. A shame because Hackney Downs has Tube-esque
service frequencies to and from Liverpool St.


25. Old Oak Common (Acton): Central, GW, KC, NLL

Depends entirely on Crossrail and High Speed developments. The local
authority is lobbying hard but given all the doubts about Crossrail
and High Speed development who knows what will happen.

A lot of talk for the foreseeable, that's what'll happen! One plus
point about any ideas w.r.t. an Old Oak Common hub station is that
pretty much all the relevant land is railway land, and that's not
about to change.


29. Shoreditch High Street (ELL/Central/Gt Eastern)

That'll never happen. Way too expensive and stopping services on very
busy lines will create significant passenger disbenefits.

Indeed. It's a sub-10 minute walk to Liverpool Street, should one want
to get on the Central line from the ELL. But anyway those coming from
points north on the NLL would do better to travel via H&I and the
Victoria line, or via Stratford - and those coming from points south
can change at Canada Water for the Jubbly line to get into town
(though they might have to play at being a sardine at peak times).

Talking about sardines, Bethnal Green to Liverpool St is reputed to be
the busiest section of the Tube at peak times, I don't know whether
any official figures back that up but it's certainly pretty crammo -
my mate who lives that way says he doesn't even dream of using the
line during the rush hour.

On Aug 10, 3:27*pm, wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote:
It's also possible that people living "further out on the Piccadilly"
would use it as a short cut to/from the West End, thereby overloading
the Central.

Yeah, I had similar thoughts. Still, it would serve to make the
Rayners Lane branch of the Piccadilly more useful.

The central seems to cope with an interchange with the district at stratford
where I'm sure a load of people change onto the central to continue to
the city and west end so I can't see a lightly used branch like rayners lane
unduly affecting the central much in the other direction.

The Central interchanges with the District at Mile End, down the road
from Stratford, and it also (cross-platform) interchanges with the
heavily used Great Eastern suburban services at Stratford. As to the
eastern end Central seeming to cope, well I don't think it really does
- hence the need for relief from Crossrail.

Re the lightly used Rayners Lane branch - the point was just that it
might become a bit more heavily used if it gave easy access to the
Central, with the potential for ensuing capacity issues for the
western end of the Central. That said, I can't quite see it being a
massive issue - though maybe everyone from Uxbridge might suddenly
desert the Met!