In message
, at
14:11:42 on Sun, 8 Aug 2010, CJB remarked:
TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

Apart, of course, from looking for cards where there were two top-up
[bank charges] on the same day.

Yes - some passengers will do that, but that doesn't actually matter.
What you are looking for is top-ups where there were two debits but only
one amount of credit added.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
14:11:42 on Sun, 8 Aug 2010, CJB remarked:
TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

Apart, of course, from looking for cards where there were two top-up
[bank charges] on the same day.

Yes - some passengers will do that, but that doesn't actually matter.
What you are looking for is top-ups where there were two debits but only
one amount of credit added.

Not holding an Oyster card, I wouldn't know, but in many cases the
financial part of e-transactions is handled separately for security
reasons. If that is the case here, then how would TfL know in detail
about the debits?

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632943.html
(43 033 at Reading, 27 Apr 1985)

In message , at 10:33:30 on
Mon, 9 Aug 2010, Chris Tolley remarked:
TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

Apart, of course, from looking for cards where there were two top-up
[bank charges] on the same day.

Yes - some passengers will do that, but that doesn't actually matter.
What you are looking for is top-ups where there were two debits but only
one amount of credit added.

Not holding an Oyster card, I wouldn't know, but in many cases the
financial part of e-transactions is handled separately for security
reasons. If that is the case here, then how would TfL know in detail
about the debits?

That's potentially why you need the people handling the payments to give
you a list (presumably quite a short one) of all the Oyster cards that
requested a debit, and you could then correlate that with the credits
registered against the cards.

Also, this "double dipped" money will also be sitting in some kind of
suspense account, because the books won't balance. In simple terms,
you've got more income than the services you've supplied.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:33:30 on
Mon, 9 Aug 2010, Chris Tolley remarked:
TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

Apart, of course, from looking for cards where there were two top-up
[bank charges] on the same day.

Yes - some passengers will do that, but that doesn't actually matter.
What you are looking for is top-ups where there were two debits but only
one amount of credit added.

Not holding an Oyster card, I wouldn't know, but in many cases the
financial part of e-transactions is handled separately for security
reasons. If that is the case here, then how would TfL know in detail
about the debits?

That's potentially why you need the people handling the payments to give
you a list (presumably quite a short one) of all the Oyster cards that
requested a debit, and you could then correlate that with the credits
registered against the cards.

Also, this "double dipped" money will also be sitting in some kind of
suspense account, because the books won't balance. In simple terms,
you've got more income than the services you've supplied.

I would have thought that the question of matching things up between TfL
and whoever holds the financial records is possibly irrelevant. All
that's needed, surely, is for the bank to trawl through the credits, and
if it finds identical amounts with identical timestamps (and possibly
identical (or consecutive) transaction-ids) then just refund one of
them.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683648.html
(Class 105 twin set led by 51298, in all-over blue at Colchester, 1980)

In message , at 11:33:50 on
Mon, 9 Aug 2010, Chris Tolley remarked:
I would have thought that the question of matching things up between TfL
and whoever holds the financial records is possibly irrelevant. All
that's needed, surely, is for the bank to trawl through the credits, and
if it finds identical amounts with identical timestamps (and possibly
identical (or consecutive) transaction-ids) then just refund one of
them.

tfl's bank, you mean? Yes, that's in effect getting tfl to do it. I
wasn't going to assume all the double-debits were identically timed
though - rather, starting off with "being on the same day" and see where
it went from there.
--
Roland Perry

On Aug 9, 10:33*am, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
14:11:42 on Sun, 8 Aug 2010, CJB remarked:

TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

Apart, of course, from looking for cards where there were two top-up
[bank charges] on the same day.

Yes - some passengers will do that, but that doesn't actually matter.
What you are looking for is top-ups where there were two debits but only
one amount of credit added.

Not holding an Oyster card, I wouldn't know, but in many cases the
financial part of e-transactions is handled separately for security
reasons. If that is the case here, then how would TfL know in detail
about the debits?

If by 'e-transactions' you are talking about an e-commerce (i.e.
online purchase) situation, then that wouldn't apply here as this
concerns people topping up their Oyster cards in person at self-
service ticket machines at LU stations.

"Mizter T" wrote in message

On Aug 9, 10:33 am, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

In message
,
at 14:11:42 on Sun, 8 Aug 2010, CJB
remarked:

TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

Apart, of course, from looking for cards where there were two top-up
[bank charges] on the same day.

Yes - some passengers will do that, but that doesn't actually
matter. What you are looking for is top-ups where there were two
debits but only one amount of credit added.

Not holding an Oyster card, I wouldn't know, but in many cases the
financial part of e-transactions is handled separately for security
reasons. If that is the case here, then how would TfL know in detail
about the debits?

If by 'e-transactions' you are talking about an e-commerce (i.e.
online purchase) situation, then that wouldn't apply here as this
concerns people topping up their Oyster cards in person at self-
service ticket machines at LU stations.

But using chip and pin bank cards to do so. It's also not clear if it
only happens with debit cards, or credit cards as well. And I don't
quite understand whether the problem is at certain machines, or all
machines at certain stations.

But it does seem slightly suspicious that it seems mainly to happen at
large Tube+mainline stations with OSI time-out potential...

On Aug 9, 12:44*pm, "Recliner" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

On Aug 9, 10:33 am, Chris *Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

In message
,
at 14:11:42 on Sun, 8 Aug 2010, CJB
remarked:

TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

Apart, of course, from looking for cards where there were two top-up
[bank charges] on the same day.

Yes - some passengers will do that, but that doesn't actually
matter. What you are looking for is top-ups where there were two
debits but only one amount of credit added.

Not holding an Oyster card, I wouldn't know, but in many cases the
financial part of e-transactions is handled separately for security
reasons. If that is the case here, then how would TfL know in detail
about the debits?

If by 'e-transactions' you are talking about an e-commerce (i.e.
online purchase) situation, then that wouldn't apply here as this
concerns people topping up their Oyster cards in person at self-
service ticket machines at LU stations.

But using chip and pin bank cards to do so. It's also not clear if it
only happens with debit cards, or credit cards as well. And I don't
quite understand whether the problem is at certain machines, or all
machines at certain stations.

Does using a hip-and-pin card qualify it to have the 'e-transactions'
label?


But it does seem slightly suspicious that it seems mainly to happen at
large Tube+mainline stations with OSI time-out potential...

Yes, that was a factor in my earlier suspicion (though I subsequently
revisited this thread and doubted whether there could any
connection... but maybe...).

Basically, more information required - we're rather stabbing in the
dark otherwise.

Mizter T wrote:

Does using a hip-and-pin card qualify it to have the 'e-transactions'
label?

Occasionally people use expressions without knowing that others reckon
they are jargon. It's a bit like spelling mistakes - astute readers can
see past them, whilst some might feel the need to point them out. ;-)
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9633122.html
(66 095 at Bridgend, 2 Jul 1999)

On Aug 9, 2:18*pm, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
Does using a hip-and-pin card qualify it to have the 'e-transactions'
label?

Occasionally people use expressions without knowing that others reckon
they are jargon. It's a bit like spelling mistakes - astute readers can
see past them, whilst some might feel the need to point them out. ;-)

Don't smiley face me.